“He’s doing a good job,” Trump saidabout the Israeli leader. “Biden is trying to hold him back, just so you understand, Biden is more superior to the VP. He’s trying to hold him back, and he probably should be doing the opposite, actually. I’m glad that Netanyahu decided to do what he had to do, but it’s moving along pretty good.”

  • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
    209·
    1 month ago

    True. I think it’s more about whether Harris can pull in the “genocide bad” folks, or loses them to third-party protest votes. Of course if any of those folks were paying attention to the crap coming out of Trump’s mouth, they’d understand how much worse Trump will be. I had folks (hexbear and .ml of course) on a different post telling me that not only would Harris and Trump be the same on this, but that Harris would actually be worse. And of course they’re willfully ignoring how bad Trump would be on everything else.

    I have a suspicion that part of what’s pushing Harris’ campaign strategy right now to focus on courting more “centrists” is that they know whatever she did to appeal to the left that’s not voting for her would never be enough to satisfy them. Far easier to court the middle with straightforward messaging than to appeal to a voting bloc that is already determined to hate anyone that’s not as chaotic as they are.

    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1324·
      1 month ago

      True. I think it’s more about whether Harris can pull in the “genocide bad” folks

      I haven’t seen her try. Have you?

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
              816·
              30 days ago

              That’s not what you are. It’s ALL you are. When you support genocide, it defines everything about you as a person.

              • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                65·
                29 days ago

                It’s so frustrating,… Because I want Harris to win so bad for the sake of the Palestinian people (among other things), and yet, some part of me just wishes there was some way for you to see the outcome of your idiotic actions without having to kill millions of Palestinians, Lebanese, and other Arabs. Some way for you you realize just how fucking stupid it is to do anything that would help Trump win.

                Or maybe not you, but someone who actually gives a shit about those people and is considering not voting or throwing their vote away by voting third party… Because, frankly, I don’t even believe you.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  4·
                  29 days ago

                  For the umpteenth time, I’m voting for Harris.

                  You just want everyone to shut up and pretend to be as happy as you are about genocide.

                  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                    34·
                    29 days ago

                    Umpteenth time? Do I know you? Until the last 15-20 mins when I tagged your username, I had never seen you in my life before this exchange. Or maybe you remember me from one of your alt accounts and got confused?

      • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
        166·
        1 month ago

        Thanks for proving my point.

        Not that you’ll read it, but I think this might help explain:

        https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/09/kamala-harris-israel-policy-palestine-gaza-war.html

        Perhaps Harris’ loudest statement, however, was prefaced by her absence. Shortly after getting the nod from Biden in July, Harris snubbed Netanyahu, skipping his speech to Congress. (She spoke to a Black sorority, instead.) The next day, she met privately with him—later describing their talk as “frank and productive,” words that your boss might use after a performance review goes poorly.

        The reaction to her remarks was underwhelming at the time, but the remarks themselves were extraordinary. “We cannot allow ourselves to become numb to the suffering” of Palestinians in Gaza, “and I will not be silent,” she told reporters and cameras. “Israel has a right to defend itself—but how it does so matters.” It was as close as a sitting vice president could possibly come to reading Netanyahu for filth without creating a diplomatic crisis.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1019·
          30 days ago

          Her messaging regarding unconditional support for the genocide all centrists love is more convincing than subtle hints that slate has to speculate about.

          • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
            168·
            30 days ago

            A nuanced take as always /s

            Did you even get to the end of the article or did you just read the headline?

            Harris has very little room to maneuver, however, without losing a huge part of her base and the party machinery that are still deeply attached to Israel. There is only so much a candidate and sitting vice president can do or say to break with the position held by her staunchly Zionist president, a Democratic establishment beholden to the pro-Israel lobby and AIPAC, and a broad swath of her liberal base that strongly supports Israel and its war. If she’s serious about getting elected, she has to withhold the kind of unambiguous statement—or action—that pro-Palestine activists demand. So she’s reduced to tone of voice, oblique gestures, a message hidden between the lines.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1017·
              30 days ago

              Did you even get to the end of the article or did you just read the headline?

              I read the article. I don’t buy excuses and apologia when we’re talking about literal genocide. I also regard with earned disgust anyone who makes such excuses.

              The whole “she absolutely can’t differ from Biden in any way except for these subtle hints we speculate about” thing is garbage. She’s not the secretary of state. She’s not running everything behind the scenes like Dick Cheney, though she seems to have garnered his approval, and it speaks volumes that centrists were so goddamned happy about his endorsement. In any event, she is free to differ on foreign policy and chooses not to.

              I’m still voting for her. I’m going to be at the polls this coming Monday, which is when early voting opens here in Texas. I have every right to criticize her for supporting Netanyahu’s genocide, even if Netanyahu’s apologists want me to buy that she has shown any opposition whatsoever to the only policy centrists seriously hold.

              • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
                128·
                30 days ago

                Okay, let’s play this out. What exactly do you want her to say? Specifically. Because it’s not like as VP she can do anything about it directly. So this is just going to be a statement, right?

                Let’s say as part of that statement, she says Israel should get no more aid. That would be the crux of it, correct? And Biden then has to come out and say, that’s not happening while I’m President. Factions within the Democrats withdraw funding and support from her campaign. And the Iranians start actually drooling about being able to basically act unopposed. Hezbollah gets some shiny new missiles to kill more civilians. Centrists withdraw support from Harris and more than likely sit out the election, though a few may move over to Trump. November 6 rolls around and Trump wins, the region is even more of a shitshow than it is now, and just as important, Palestinians will still be dying. And under Trump it will get much, much worse.

                Or…she tries to thread a very small needle, gets elected, and can the come to the bargaining table as the newly sworn-in President. She still has to juggle a bunch of different interests, but as President she has the power to do more than make statements and has quite a bit of latitude when it comes to foreign policy. Harris wouldn’t have been my top choice, or even in my top 5, but I can honestly say I can’t believe she won’t make saving Palestinian lives a priority, unlike Biden. But she can’t do it as a candidate.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  69·
                  30 days ago

                  Okay, let’s play this out. What exactly do you want her to say?

                  That she would consider conditioning weapons sales. She hasn’t even done that. There isn’t one lousy photon of daylight between her and Biden, and there isn’t a photon between him and Netanyahu.

                  Centrists withdraw support from Harris and more than likely sit out the election, though a few may move over to Trump.

                  You mean to tell me that “vote blue no matter who” only works one way? That it’s only meant for progressives to show unconditional support to the pro-genocide anti-worker wing of the party, but that the very instant that centrists don’t get 100% of everything they want for the first time ever, they immediately defect and become red capped trumpers?

                  Or…she tries to thread a very small needle, gets elected, and can the come to the bargaining table as the newly sworn-in President.

                  And announces that she has a mandate to continue Biden’s pro-genocide policies. Centrists rejoice.

                  Harris wouldn’t have been my top choice, or even in my top 5

                  Yeah. Netanyahu can’t run in US elections.

                  • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
                    136·
                    30 days ago

                    That she would consider conditioning weapons sales. She hasn’t even done that. There isn’t one lousy photon of daylight between her and Biden, and there isn’t a photon between him and Netanyahu.

                    So I was correct in guessing what you wanted her to say? And my entire reply was about the probable outcome of that.

                    You mean to tell me that “vote blue no matter who” only works one way?

                    I was referring to centrist as those not strongly associated with either party. I despise the term “independents” as I think they are anything but. Basically the folks who see the Cheney endorsement and think “Maybe I can vote for Harris after all?” The 55 to 75 year olds who turn out in droves every election. And because of that, you need to get as many of them voting for you as possible to win.

                    And announces that she has a mandate to continue Biden’s pro-genocide policies. Centrists rejoice.

                    Obviously you have no interest in discussing this rationally. Especially considering you then implied my top choice for US president would’ve been Netanyahu.

                    I laid out what I think would happen if Harris did what you wanted. You chose not to refute any of that. Or more likely - you couldn’t.

                    So, want to try again or just throw more insults my way?

                  • davidagain@lemmy.world
                    73·
                    30 days ago

                    “He’s doing a good job,” Trump saidabout the Israeli leader. “Biden is trying to hold him back, just so you understand, Biden is more superior to the VP. He’s trying to hold him back, and he probably should be doing the opposite, actually. I’m glad that Netanyahu decided to do what he had to do, but it’s moving along pretty good.”