this is a topic i’ve been heavily involved with because i still consider myself to be someone who prefers using technology at a very beginner friendly level, plus it’s very good when a linux operating system makes you feel right at home when it has a modern desktop environment. this is why i really like gnome, its simplicity and usability is something available for everyone, for beginners and for a lot of other people, but if you had to, say, rearrange xfce or kde for someone who was an elderly person or an absolute beginner so that they wouldn’t have any trouble using linux, how would you do it? (screenshot is my current linux mint desktop, very simple and extremely user friendly!!!)
Adopt windows file system with letterer partitions as the root. Plus most people who use computers are used to this paradigm already. Who ever came up with Linux’s file system has poor organization skills
I don’t agree. It’s just because you’re used to drive letters.
I think Linux filesystem is better organised. Everything is (almost) well organised in the right folder.
My 90yo neighbor has run Mint since before I met him 15 years ago
Pls send me ur wallpaper (I fucking love stolas)
Something that automatically updates. Despite my best efforts my mom still has me update her Mint install.
Aurora Linux + KDE
It’s an immutable version of Fedora with flatpack support.
This is actually a good setup for the vast majority of people.
What would be the difference between Fedora Kinoite and this?
It uses Universal Blue, whereas Kinoite uses rpm-ostree.
Aurora has a bit of DE customization, which is arguably more polished.
It also leans heavily on Flatpack/Flathub.
The other difference that I’m aware of is Aurora handles updates automatically by default, whereas Kinoite is a manual process.
To be clear, I haven’t used Kinoite at all. But I have Aurora on a gaming system that I use as a kind of TV gaming console, and I’m setting it up for my elderly parents that get upset when an icon on Windows changes (that’s how tech illiterate they are).
I stopped liking gnome. Let’s say you try to launch a wine game and it just doesn’t launch. There’s no icon to right click on to find out which wine profile it’s launching from. The quick launch icon is just there, teasing you and not doing anything useful.
I can right click on a desktop icon in KDE and do something useful with it. KDE has gotten better. It’s no longer super buggy on Wayland with Nvidia.
I agree.
I used to love GNOME in the v 2.0 era, but after 3.0 it’s been a whole shit show.
Those newfangled immutable distros might benefit them, since they’re unlikely to want to or care about modification, and it’s extra security.
Set up the web browser with a strong ad-blocker, maybe whitelisting YouTube since non-techy people are unlikely to know what to do if youtube throws up a stink about the adblocker.
Set up auto-updates maybe. For safety and such.
Otherwise make sure it looks like a dead ringer for whatever they are already used to (usually Windows) – Same background, icons in the same places and looking similar if not the same, panels set up the same way, etc. – This is easier with Cinnamon or KDE Plasma. Gnome… Even if you like it, it’s too different, yanno? Unless they’re coming from Mac, and even then it’s not the same.
P.S.: Lovely background of a gay bird prince. <3
It’s going to sound really silly but here goes:
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Ensure their background is the same as it was (seriously, they often use it as an extra way to find things).
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Where possible, use windows icons for desktop shortcuts and mask link names to match vocab they’re familiar with.
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Have rustdesk set up with a link saying “Let <your name> help me”.
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Make sure they have their password written down somewhere.
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Make sure you have their password written down somewhere.
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Where possible have background updating, where not possible have a .sh file to do it for them.
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Add desktop links for things like downloads, documents and pictures.
These are tips for any distro when moving less tech savvy relatives over. For those that like to game, ensure your fs on their gaming drive is a Linux one as it stops weird behaviour. Also, you know, install the games for them!
I’d also add the tip of installing a Windows-looking window theme. People just want the classic window buttons (X for close, etc.), not some fancy icons.
I’m out and about right now so won’t get too deep into it as it’s easily searchable, but last I checked the community consensus around rustdesk was negative
Feel free to replace it with the remote tool of your choice. Just keep in mind that it needs to be easy to use from the supportee’s end (double click, read a code).
Try a mesh VPN and SSH would be my advice
Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll have a play in the new year and see if it’ll work _
I have wireguard on my home net and just vnc into devices I need to access.
At my parents house I have a cheap gl inet device running wireguard so I can vpn in of they have any issues as well.
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Auto update only critical and likely attack vectors (the kernel, network stack) and have them applied when shutting down, have visual hints that explain to them what each thing is and make it immutable.
I would make it controlled by voice. Just need to figure out a way to tell the user what the system can do. Computer, help me shop for medicin and hold up a box infront of the screen with what you use today. This should be simple. If you make it to complex like it is today then elder people will not use the computer.
Basically a personal assistent/guide driven OS. Start with rethink the experience you would have if you went to the mall and have a human assistent with a big screen to show you everything.
I think linux mint is already there.
I don’t even know how could it be simplified more. It’s really basic.
The only obstacle there is the previous familiarity with other operative systems that could make change bard. But I’m pretty sure that if you put anyone truly novice in tech in front of linux mint and windows 11, they’ll have an easier time on linux mint.
Elderly people in my family use Ubuntu (LTS) for over a decade. In one particular case, all LTS updates are performed remotely, without issues.
ChromeOS is already an operating system for children. Like, literally. Schools use it because it works well and is really easy to use, and runs on very cheap hardware.
Agreed. Get them a ChromeOS device, or get a good refurb business class laptop and put ChromeOS flex on it.
Yes it’s not what OP is probably wanting, but this gives them a device that is hard to mess up with a minimum of training.
Ahh, so the solution is to install gentoo and customise it for simplicity and minimal user permissions /s
Chrome OS Flex seems OK. Not sure how it manages printers.
“Web printing”. Basically the printer connects to Google, the laptop connects to Google and your printing goes via Google. Why not give your advertisement profiler everything you print too?No that’s not right.
Google killed cloud print in 2020. By default, Chrome OS uses CUPS like any other Linux system.
Oops, how embarrassing. I stand corrected and tip my hat.
So, basically, WWCD?
- what would ChromeOS do?
right. so basically:
only run on ‘certified’ hardware. greatly simplifies hw support required.
hide all the stuff that gets users into trouble, or better–don’t even have it available at all.
limit what’s installable.
dumb it down.
Most of my family run Linux.
My parents run Linux Mint. It’s simple and looks like Windows. The only thing they need is a browser and LibreOffice.
Some other family members are using ElementaryOS.
The majority of PC users are IT illiterate. They have no idea what the difference between Windows and Linux is or the difference between Chrome and Firefox is.
“This icon is your browser. You know, where you can access the bank. And this icon lets you write documents”.
There was always issues when family members was running Windows. Haven’t had to fix anything after installing Linux instead. Some doesn’t even know they are using Linux. I just said I updated their PC 😅
As someone who used to sell computers to elderly and people who are generally non tech literate, as well as ran computer literacy courses;
ChromeOS + something like flatpak. I don’t think anything else will really work in the current linux world. Holding on hope for Cosmic based DE.
A Distro must have
- Easy AND reliable DE. KDE has been way too buggy and gnome has been way too hard for my parents to use. Old people often have an extremely hard time learning, it needs to replicate what they already know which is either going to be Windows or OSX most likely. Cosmic should be able to do both nicely when ready.
Reliability is so fucking key here I can not understate it. The computer glitching out is entirely unacceptable. They will not be able to do any debugging nor will you likely be on call 24/7 to fix their issues. They also need security so you can’t just “set and forget” either with no updates in a false sense of stability. Older folk copy and paste shit. Permissions and stability is key here. Flatpak has a lot of potential but it’s not there yet.
No real time AV really hurts here.
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Extremely strong app selection with either android or wine app support. Wine is the most preferable. A lot of people are reliant on windows programs for things like tax filing and all sorts of stuff like crochet software and what not. Android apps however can often be good enough and are extremely simple so with a little help, and you will need to help, they can get by with android app support.
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A11y, screenreaders, OSKs, maginifers etc. We need all of it if we want to fit the “generic elderly support”
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Good performance. Elderly people do NOT like updating systems, Their systems will likely be old. And well they are old too. If a system is slower then what they are used to, and generally non responsive, they may think the bloody thing is broken.
cough cough gnome cough cough
I genuinely do not that that any DE let alone distro is an acceptable daily driver for “general people” because general people have such a wide variety of use cases and needs. Some folk need crochet and tax software, some folk need CNC software like stitchfiddle, Some need magnifier glasses and speech to text. and man, this is only the more common of things i’ve seen.
Remeber folk, a PC that does 99% of what people generally need, does not mean that it will fit the needs of 99% of people. Here is hoping to a bright future, but I don’t think it will be a close one.
No real time AV really hurts here.
Nowadays, simply having a browser with ublockOrigin is enough to have them avoid nearly all of those dangers. Also set the browser to always block notifications, I’ve had 3 different family members asking me to remove a virus, which was just Chrome notifications from sketchy sites showing up nonstop on windows.
this is not true. SO many people will download and install whatever. I still get my old customers calling me up for help because they installed some registry cleaners promising to increase their performance by 5x
Even as a (tech literate) teacher who wants to employ Linux, the lack of compatibility (using wine) with a lot of enterprise type programs and the general hodgepodge that Libre Office is, and the memory leak mess that Only Office is, I just can’t stick to Linux for long. I end up using tiny10 to use a reliable unbloated windows that can run my office 2016 and enterprise apps. Microsoft is just so entrenched and heavily serviced by thousands of people that it’s a slow climb for Linux distros to get anywhere.
The idea of elderly people using windows only programs on Linux using the compatibility layer just seems liable to multiple potential failures.
Yes it is, but it’s a necessary one. People aren’t going to go out and learn new tax software. and hell, I still have yet to find a single working crochet program on linux.
Thankfully compatibility now isn’t that bad. I actually did an experiement where I ran entirely in wine’s desktop for a week and it was surprisingly usable.
enterprise type programs
The idea of elderly people using windows only programs
I don’t think these two groups overlap much, if at all.
the general hodgepodge that Libre Office is
What’s hodgepodge about LibreOffice? I use it daily in a corporate job. There are entire governments that use it.
