Sure, but we’re talking plurals of strangers atm. “Please don’t call me a guy going forward” is a different conversation than “what you just said is stupid, mean, and wrong”.
We don’t know what happened. What makes you think that what op wrote isn’t the facts. I can totally see something like that happening it’s not at all unbelievable.
Drag… Supposes, that’s how it would look without applying much empathy. But if someone gets called something and says it’s bad, it must be clear they don’t like it. If they’re angry, that’s a kind of upset. It means they could be hurting. Drag would understand no matter how someone phrased it.
Drag is very forgiving when a trans person is upset they’ve been misgendered. Growing up as the wrong gender is traumatic. It can literally give you cPTSD and personality disorders. Being triggered because you feel like you’re back in that situation is a completely understandable response. Drag uses gender neutral “guys”, but acknowledges that it’s a dangerous practice, and if you hurt someone then you need to own it. They don’t owe anyone politeness in that moment. If drag didn’t like that responsibility, drag wouldn’t take risks with other people’s mental health.
Out of curiosity, have your therapist told you ever about the dangers of using third person pronoun when expressing yourself? Like it strengthens the disassociation between you and your body and mind, etc. etc? If not, please change them.
This is coming from a genuine place, I’m not trying to be sarcastic or mean.
Fortunately, drag doesn’t use third person pronouns for dragself. You assumed they were third person because you’re only used to seeing that conjugation with third person. But conjugation doesn’t have a relationship to grammatical person in English. One form of conjugation can apply in multiple persons.
Why does the other persons energy matter? If someone requests not to be called something and you continue to call them that then you are kinda being a jerk. It’s not the same as correcting someone’s grammar.
Cause it’s rude. Like correcting grammar in a conversation. Both would be equally rude.
Nobody wants to be told that what they’ve learned and have been taught to them their whole life is now an offense. Just like nobody wants to be misgendered on purpose.
The fact that you’re getting downvoted for essentially saying “just be a respectful, reasonable, and decent human being” is pretty bizarre. Like, can we just have some empathy and patience for each other?
If someone asks you to stop something simple and of no consequence to you just do it out of respect. Why does everyone feel entitled to a concrete argument and being convinced before just respecting folks? It’s ridiculous.
What about half of the people in the comments seem to fail to understand is that the way the lady correcting OP’s language is the biggest factor.
Her saying “hey, could you please not refer to me as a guy?” is completely different from her getting angry and going off on a rant. The former situation is worth continuing the discussion, and the latter situation leads to people rightfully avoiding that lady.
It’s just as much not a problem for them to be offended by it as it is for you to choose your words better. Knowing that you made a choice to offend so yeah, you’re the jerk. You’re honestly making a lot more of it if you went all this distance to think you’re the one hard done by just cuz you refuse to memorize some words. That’s snowflake thinking.
Only bad actors looking for the drama go for the path of most resistance.
No, that’s different. Names occupy a different role than generic words, and you’re primed to be able to handle that. To claim that’s the same thing as replacing common words is dishonest or uninformed.
Understanding is a meeting in the middle. It’s reasonable to correct the record on how you as an individual would like to be gendered. It’s not reasonable to expect all of society to drop the use of a word that is colloquially accepted as gender neutral. At a certain point, your outrage is the antisocial behavior.
I think you’ve completely misunderstood what everyone is saying because that’s exactly what everyone you’ve responded to, including myself, is saying that they would do.
Tailor their words for that conversation but move on to a different group of people from there. Not permanently tailoring the way they speak because it is highly unlikely that they’ll engage again.
I think the amount of people who either (1) do not know the term to be gender neutral or (2) purposefully use it as a gendered term to anger people is less than 1%, honestly.
I live in a pretty conservative area, and I’m not exactly a leftist either, and I’ve never seen guys used in any way other than just as a generic for “you all”
it’s also just not important enough to die on a hill for
Cool, so we agree it’s silly to get so strung up over it, huh? Of course people tailor their language, it happens constantly. If someone is going to go out of their way to construe a perfectly normal part of speech as me being malignant and demand that I change my behavior for their benefit I’m going to tell them to fuck off, personally. If someone is respectful and asks tactfully…sure, I’ll adjust for them. Though internally I’ll be judging them for being a snowflake.
I think it’s more that if you get annoyed at something like that, I would think you’re way too much of a hassle to be friends with long term. It’s just a matter of compatibility and the choice to filter out incompatible people in your social circle. It’s nothing personal.
Of course I would stop at their request, however if I were that person with PTSD, I wouldn’t expect the world to cater to my disabilities and strategise on how I could function in society by managing it. That’s what I currently do with my own PTSD and it makes me a stronger person for it.
Also, that’s hardly comparable to using the phrase “you guys” in a conversation. That phrase has always been gender neutral and far nicer sounding than “you people” or “you all”.
Edit: and also, yes I would have no idea on why the other party would take offence to the phrase “you guys” but I would also be under no obligation to establish a friendship with them beyond that conversation. I don’t expect someone I’ve just met to trauma dump on me and I don’t want them to.
Of course, I would correct myself in that conversation and not use the phrase “you guys” after they’ve told me not to use it, because it’s polite to do so, but that won’t stop me feeling that I can’t be myself around them.
I am a victim of sexual assault and, yes, I would absolutely say that. My problems are my own and I’m not about to force others to cater to my personal demons.
Sounds like you might be from the US or somewhere where medical help isn’t freely available. I deal with my trauma with medication and counselors/psychiatrists so that I can function and contribute to society because that’s the standard that I hold for others, especially myself.
Well, there’s a massive difference between “don’t call me a guy” and someone saying “hey guys” to a group to have one member fire back a response about gendered terms
One of these is clear stating of respectful boundaries, the other one is just offloading (and very likely speaking for/over others) to score imaginary purity points
It’s not a problem until someone tells you to not refer to them as a dude or a guy. If you continue, you are just an asshole 🤷🏻
Sure, but we’re talking plurals of strangers atm. “Please don’t call me a guy going forward” is a different conversation than “what you just said is stupid, mean, and wrong”.
Your facts are not what OP wrote, though. And in this context the facts are relevant, which is the point.
Bad red herring.
We don’t know what happened. What makes you think that what op wrote isn’t the facts. I can totally see something like that happening it’s not at all unbelievable.
It’s the same picture?
No it really isn’t. One clearly and directly communicates a need. The other response shies away from that and insults without explaining why.
Drag… Supposes, that’s how it would look without applying much empathy. But if someone gets called something and says it’s bad, it must be clear they don’t like it. If they’re angry, that’s a kind of upset. It means they could be hurting. Drag would understand no matter how someone phrased it.
If the other party is 3, then yes. From adults I expect ability to differentiate between stating a need and throwing a tantrum.
Drag is very forgiving when a trans person is upset they’ve been misgendered. Growing up as the wrong gender is traumatic. It can literally give you cPTSD and personality disorders. Being triggered because you feel like you’re back in that situation is a completely understandable response. Drag uses gender neutral “guys”, but acknowledges that it’s a dangerous practice, and if you hurt someone then you need to own it. They don’t owe anyone politeness in that moment. If drag didn’t like that responsibility, drag wouldn’t take risks with other people’s mental health.
Out of curiosity, have your therapist told you ever about the dangers of using third person pronoun when expressing yourself? Like it strengthens the disassociation between you and your body and mind, etc. etc? If not, please change them.
This is coming from a genuine place, I’m not trying to be sarcastic or mean.
Fortunately, drag doesn’t use third person pronouns for dragself. You assumed they were third person because you’re only used to seeing that conjugation with third person. But conjugation doesn’t have a relationship to grammatical person in English. One form of conjugation can apply in multiple persons.
Or, just maybe. The person remarking is an asshole. It gives off the same energy as correcting grammar when talking with someone.
Why does the other persons energy matter? If someone requests not to be called something and you continue to call them that then you are kinda being a jerk. It’s not the same as correcting someone’s grammar.
Cause it’s rude. Like correcting grammar in a conversation. Both would be equally rude.
Nobody wants to be told that what they’ve learned and have been taught to them their whole life is now an offense. Just like nobody wants to be misgendered on purpose.
“Learning new things is offensive”
Big yikes
Being told you’re an idiot and everything you’ve learned is wrong in front of others is “yikes”
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“The earth is flat”. “Ok, cool. Didn’t mean anything by it.”
A bit hyperbolic, but that is how i imagine it sounds to older people. Perspective goes both ways.
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The fact that you’re getting downvoted for essentially saying “just be a respectful, reasonable, and decent human being” is pretty bizarre. Like, can we just have some empathy and patience for each other?
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What about half of the people in the comments seem to fail to understand is that the way the lady correcting OP’s language is the biggest factor.
Her saying “hey, could you please not refer to me as a guy?” is completely different from her getting angry and going off on a rant. The former situation is worth continuing the discussion, and the latter situation leads to people rightfully avoiding that lady.
Is this a personal attack?
There is a time and a place for it. Just not when you want someone to agree with or like you. 🙂
Sir, you’re an officer of the law. You can’t help but be who you are. It’s ok to own it.
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It’s just as much not a problem for them to be offended by it as it is for you to choose your words better. Knowing that you made a choice to offend so yeah, you’re the jerk. You’re honestly making a lot more of it if you went all this distance to think you’re the one hard done by just cuz you refuse to memorize some words. That’s snowflake thinking.
Only bad actors looking for the drama go for the path of most resistance.
Changing the language you intuitively use is hard
There are harder things in life that are actually worth complaining about. Growing your brain isn’t one of them.
L + ratio + 5 days too late for me to care
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No, that’s different. Names occupy a different role than generic words, and you’re primed to be able to handle that. To claim that’s the same thing as replacing common words is dishonest or uninformed.
I mean I’ll be nice about it and correct to girls or ladies or whatever, but that conversation is probably over
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Understanding is a meeting in the middle. It’s reasonable to correct the record on how you as an individual would like to be gendered. It’s not reasonable to expect all of society to drop the use of a word that is colloquially accepted as gender neutral. At a certain point, your outrage is the antisocial behavior.
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…
I think you’ve completely misunderstood what everyone is saying because that’s exactly what everyone you’ve responded to, including myself, is saying that they would do.
Tailor their words for that conversation but move on to a different group of people from there. Not permanently tailoring the way they speak because it is highly unlikely that they’ll engage again.
I think the amount of people who either (1) do not know the term to be gender neutral or (2) purposefully use it as a gendered term to anger people is less than 1%, honestly.
I live in a pretty conservative area, and I’m not exactly a leftist either, and I’ve never seen guys used in any way other than just as a generic for “you all”
Cool, so we agree it’s silly to get so strung up over it, huh? Of course people tailor their language, it happens constantly. If someone is going to go out of their way to construe a perfectly normal part of speech as me being malignant and demand that I change my behavior for their benefit I’m going to tell them to fuck off, personally. If someone is respectful and asks tactfully…sure, I’ll adjust for them. Though internally I’ll be judging them for being a snowflake.
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How does a snowflake screw in a lightbulb? They hold the bulb, and the whole world revolves around them.
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I just told you I would respect it. But I don’t view “you guys” as something divisive. So yeah I don’t want to be around those people
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Nah I’m doing pretty ok.
Also fuck maga
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I’m not pretending? And I’m also not hard-line
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I think it’s more that if you get annoyed at something like that, I would think you’re way too much of a hassle to be friends with long term. It’s just a matter of compatibility and the choice to filter out incompatible people in your social circle. It’s nothing personal.
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Of course I would stop at their request, however if I were that person with PTSD, I wouldn’t expect the world to cater to my disabilities and strategise on how I could function in society by managing it. That’s what I currently do with my own PTSD and it makes me a stronger person for it.
Also, that’s hardly comparable to using the phrase “you guys” in a conversation. That phrase has always been gender neutral and far nicer sounding than “you people” or “you all”.
Edit: and also, yes I would have no idea on why the other party would take offence to the phrase “you guys” but I would also be under no obligation to establish a friendship with them beyond that conversation. I don’t expect someone I’ve just met to trauma dump on me and I don’t want them to.
Of course, I would correct myself in that conversation and not use the phrase “you guys” after they’ve told me not to use it, because it’s polite to do so, but that won’t stop me feeling that I can’t be myself around them.
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I am a victim of sexual assault and, yes, I would absolutely say that. My problems are my own and I’m not about to force others to cater to my personal demons.
Sounds like you might be from the US or somewhere where medical help isn’t freely available. I deal with my trauma with medication and counselors/psychiatrists so that I can function and contribute to society because that’s the standard that I hold for others, especially myself.
Well, there’s a massive difference between “don’t call me a guy” and someone saying “hey guys” to a group to have one member fire back a response about gendered terms
One of these is clear stating of respectful boundaries, the other one is just offloading (and very likely speaking for/over others) to score imaginary purity points