• FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    Ok, “leader of Our Revolution”. If Democrats are a failure then form your own party and show Democrats how it’s done.

    • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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      6 hours ago

      If Democrats are a failure then form your own party and show Democrats how it’s done.

      I mean, there is the Green Party, for example. Not one I’m a fan of.

      But the problem with third parties is the fact that the system is engineered to only allow two parties to exist.

      We could do a repeat of what they did in Nevada, and just wipe the entire incumbent Dem Committee seats, and started over with a new set of folks, all leftists. And then, the Dems did nothing but tear them down, until they got those seats back.

      3 wasted years of Dems fighting leftists, just to obtain power. Not to enact changes, not after learning any lessons. Nevada is back to just another rubber stamp for oligarchs. A controlled oppo team.

      • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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        6 hours ago

        I’m not a fan of the Green Party, either. Among other things, they gave us Senator Sinema.

        But if leftists want to demonstrate that they are better than establishment Dems at winning elections, then leftists will have to win elections. Starting with primaries.

        And yes, others will try to “tear them down” from all sides. Intraparty fighting never ends, even after winning an election. Just ask Joe Biden. That’s the nature of politics, which leftists often don’t want to face.

        • Ferrous@lemmy.ml
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          5 hours ago

          This is not leftism. What you’re proposing is just a shiny new liberal party. This hypothetical new party would be subject to the same mechanisms and forces that corrupted the democratic party. Give it 50 years, and we are back at square one: capital will swallow any agency that your proposed party once exhibited.

          I really encourage you to do some reading on Marxism and leftism before you throw around the term so carelessly. https://socialistworker.org/2012/07/20/what-is-a-vanguard-party

          Decrying actual leftists for not participating in american electoralism that is wholley orchestrated by capital is going to fall on deaf ears. Leftists have no interest in creating a new capitalist party and subsequently refining capitalism.

          • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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            5 hours ago

            Then I was right. Leftists don’t want to win elections.

            But Democrats do. So why should Democrats listen to leftists?

            • Ferrous@lemmy.ml
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              5 hours ago

              So why should Democrats listen to leftists?

              What are you on about? Democrats, in one of the most embarrassing defeats in recent history, literally just made it clear to the world that they would rather lose than cater to leftists. Biden decided that carrying out genocide in Gaza was more important than defeating Trump.

              • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                5 hours ago

                That’s the usual explanation leftists give. But I’m not sure Democrats should listen to that, either.

                Especially since the largest shifts towards Trump in 2024 occurred in the Latino and Gen Z male demographics. Both of them are more centrist than average Democrats, and they are the demographics that Democrats need to win back in 2028.

                • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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                  5 hours ago

                  Do you think any of that loss might have been caused by the Dems declaring a great economy, and telling voters to stop whining, and just vote Blue No Matter Who?

                  • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                    5 hours ago

                    I don’t know.

                    But I do know who Democrats need to win back if they want to win in 2028. And those voters are mostly centrists.

              • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                5 hours ago

                If leftists ever won a presidential election, then they might have useful advice to others who wanted to do the same.

                But they never have, and apparently they don’t even want to.

                • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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                  5 hours ago

                  So, no interest in trying to represent the working class…

                  And also wondering why you think they deserve to win…

                  • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                    4 hours ago

                    If leftists think Trump best listens to the working class, then leftists should start advising Republicans instead of Democrats.

        • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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          5 hours ago

          What if I told you, that elections are a way for the ruling class to justify the oppression of the working class?

          • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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            5 hours ago

            Then I would conclude that you are not interested in winning elections.

            And therefore you shouldn’t give advice to people who do want to win elections.

            • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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              5 hours ago

              Hey man, I want our Empire to crumble, not prolong it’s life.

              While crumbling, I want to limit damage as best as possible.

              The Dems are the ones who care about winning elections, and holding power. The only way to do that is to listen to the working class.

              Trump lied about his intent to fix the problems, but he did, minimally, agree they existed.

              • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                4 hours ago

                I don’t believe leftists actually know “the only way to win elections and hold power”, considering they have accomplished neither.

                • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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                  4 hours ago

                  Probably because neither is our goal? I mean, leftists want no state, no classes, and no money.

                  • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                    3 hours ago

                    Democrats definitely don’t want a stateless society. So they definitely should not listen to leftists.