Since we have a lot of racist redditors coming over here catching bans for their historical ignorance about the June 4th incident, here are some resources:
- Notes for the 30th anniversary of the Tiannment incident.
- It wasn’t a massacre of peaceful students, but a skirmish between PLA soldiers and armed detachments from the pro-capitalist / free market reform movement. The protest movement, as evidenced by their own accounts, called for market liberalisation, and free market reforms, rallying around a replica of the statue of liberty. After the movement had been building in the square for seven weeks, unarmed soldiers were sent in to disperse the protesters, after which many soldiers were beaten to death, torched, and lynched. The New York Times death count went from 2600, to many thousands, to 8000, to tens of thousands. In reality only around ~200 (including soldiers) were killed or trampled, in smaller clashes outside the square. The on-scene New York Times reporter disavowed the article, especially about machine-gunning of protesters. A wikileaks cable from a US ambassador to the US state department, confirmed that no killings or machine-gunnings took place in the square.
- Latin American diplomat eyewitness account of June 3-4 events on Tiananmen Square wikileaks (PDF)
- There was a Spanish television crew that covered the entire Tiananmen Square incident as it unfolded. Their footage showed that there was no massacre. A few things worthy of pointing out - Liu Xiaobo and Hou Dejian, both student leaders of the Tiananmen protests, have been recorded as saying that they never saw anyone killed at the protests.
- The protest movement followed the line of “color revolutions”, in which the US tried to destabilize and create counter-revolutions in eastern Europe and Latin America after the fall of the USSR. The strategy was to stir division within and without, by inundating the media with news of massacres of “peaceful”, pro-capitalist / market reformers.
- The defeat of a counter revolution in China.
- Interviews from some of the student leaders.
- An account from a resident.
- Tiananmen Square “Massacre”, A Propaganda Hoax.
- The truth about the Tiananmen square protests
God. Its so nice for someone to link resorces. Idk wtf was up with the MLs Ive ran into in the past but they’d just yell at you and never provide any sources. It’s not exactly easy to find shit on China that isn’t western AF if you don’t know what you are doing. Which admittedly I do not. I’ve always had to use others to find good sources of information outside the imperialist umbrella.
All that is to say. Hey! Thanks a lot!!
Unfortunately, I think the reason this happens is because it’s difficult to remain calm and optimistic within a western-dominated internet. Some comrades react emotionally, rather than trying to create new comrades, either out of exhaustion or a belief that it’s too difficult.
I think trying to raise the quality of how we engage with people as communists is one of the more important tasks with organizing.
I agree
No probs!
Never feel bad about asking for a source, or investigating the sources people post. Imperialist propaganda can’t be debunked without rigorous investigation, and good journalists / investigators are out there, as much as western states would like to make them invisible (or kill them).
I forget exactly how the saying goes, might be from the Buddha: “3 things can’t stay hidden for long. The sun, the moon, and the truth”.
Look up the Bonus Army
Also most US police forces, as part of the militarization of police, have been effectively using tanks and APCs against protestors and civilians for at least 15 years now. Israel uses the Palestinian people as guinea pigs for most of this new population control tech, then the equipment that works gets sold to US police.
One other more recent example too of the US using tanks against its citizens was the waco standoff. The US used tanks against, then burned ~100 people alive.
We literally have the video of tankman climbing up the tank and not being flattened, it was even reported back in the day, but people downvoting you can’t be bothered to google that
I think the downvotes are because the post implies that the Chinese did not kill anyone, when hundreds were murdered. What became of tank man is unknown, but it’s clear he wasn’t killed by one of those tanks.
I heard it was millions, and that evil communist xi xingping plans of doing it again and name it the scary communist leap forward after his favorite scary communist dictator mowz dong
It was thousands. Perhaps 10s of thousands. You don’t care, why comment?
And Iran, they killed 40 thousand!
Are you being sarcastic?
Because, and anyone correct me if I’m wrong,
most people here know that what happened during the Tianenmen square insurrection was:- Soldiers, mostly the army choir, are ordered to come unarmed and clear the square after months of students protesting in favor of Usonian state-backed exploitative economic teachings.
- 100+ Soldiers killed, mostly the army choir, by insurrectionists at a road adjacent to the square.
- Remaining army choir soldiers lead the protesters away through song from the square.
- 20+ Insurrectionists killed, as armed soldiers arrived and a battle broke out, on the same road.
- 100+ protesters killed, as a chaotic indirect consequence of the earlier insurrectionists’ actions, at a train station miles away.
- Tanks arrive at the square to prevent further escalation.
- Tanks leave the square as situation deescalated and tank man blocks the tanks for a while, then leaves, on the same road again.
These insurrectionists went a lot further than the Usonian Jan 6th protest mostly known as the “Freedom Plaza massacre” where “peaceful protesters” entered the capitol building in order to “stop election fraud” where “perhaps 10s of thousands civilian lives were killed as US security opened fire at these peaceful protesters”, because unlike CIA-backed insurrectionists, these “peaceful protesters” were ordered by their higher ups to leave immediately instead of being encouraged to block the US army from arriving at Capitol Hill or attack the US army for that matter.
I didn’t know i was on a joke sub, I guess.
Do you have a source for your estimate of deaths? 100+ is very ambiguous since it includes any number >100, which seems already beyond contention.
Probably the official CPC figure of 241 killed in total. Most of the serious estimates broadly agree - NSA said 180-500, and the Tiananmen Mothers organisation have identified 198 of the dead.
Since we’re evidently reading the same Wikipedia article, I’ll point out that those are among the lowest estimates on the page and the Beijing hospital record was 478 dead and 920 wounded.
But these are all very different numbers from what was commented.
I think the numbers are a bit off - official Chinese figures were ~20 student protestors, ~20 police and army, and about 200 other protestors were killed.
Don’t you mean hundreds of thousands, you redfash tankie?
You don’t understand the scope. It was hundreds of thousands. It was hundreds of millions. Evil Chinese communism knows no bounds and will consume all. I will take all your social credit points now for myself, silly American
Bro literally had a conversation with the soldier in the tank.
There is video of him being removed/taken away by others. He certainly was not crushed.
Westerners aren’t helpless innocents whose minds are injected with atrocity propaganda, science fiction-style; they’re generally smug bourgeois proletarians who intelligently seek out as much racist propaganda as they can get their hands on. This is because it fundamentally makes them feel better about who they are and how they live. The psychic and material costs are rationally worth the benefits. -Roderic Day
All the libs in the comments really living up to the quote.
The operative word being smug
Alexa, what is the definition of “irony”?
This is just smug for “no you”
Lemmitors really didn’t sent their best to this thread.
The Amerikkkan randomly calling me racist while being racist was fun if entirely unproductive. Same with the Canadian settler.
Don’t feel that you need to argue with these racists, because it can lead to burn-out quickly. You can always report them and we’ll try to get to it ASAP.
Also thank you for your hard work in educating everyone. It’s not going to waste, and everyone is learning a lot from your posts. o7
Also thank you for your hard work in educating everyone. It’s not going to waste, and everyone is learning a lot from your posts. o7
Thank you always great to hear.
Don’t feel that you need to argue with these racists, because it can lead to burn-out quickly. You can always report them and we’ll try to get to it ASAP.
Yeah definitely I always make sure to report any actual racism etc I see but it is fun to blow off steam arguing with/making fun of them at the same time even if it’s entirely unproductive.
Speaking from experience. Still be careful. Even when you think you are blowing off steam, more could be going on then you think. I didnt realize how miserable I had gotten till I had take some time away.
Arguing with randos on the internet can honestly really fuck with a person.
Seconding this, @QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml’s comments have been fantastic lately, and absolutely aren’t going to waste.
Thank you very glad to hear
If it helps, it was fun to see you owning them
I just finished reading this article today a few hours ago! it felt like such an eerily perfect dissection of liberals it is incredible impressive, it doesn’t reduce their annoyance but it does provide an easier way to deal with it
Link?
My bad for not linking above, here it is: https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels
Thanks I’m looking forward to reading later
No problem!
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I love whenever someone posts the “tank man” photo because the liberals always reveal themselves like roaches scattering across the room when a lightswitch is turned on. Mod ban hammer squish them all plz and thank you.
I love your portfolio.
aww, you’re sweet, thank you.
You are so very welcome. Thank you for sharing it with us!
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Why do so many of you believe the CCP is better than ICE
Because even Western reporters who were there debunk the myth of what happened.
As far as genocide, Sayragul Sauytbay (basically the sole source of “proof”), has also been debunked six ways til Sunday, and even admits that she hasn’t even witnessed these events firsthand. Gee, funny that the US/West lied about Vietnam, lied about Korea, Lied about Iraq, lied about Iran, lied about Cuba, lied about Venezuela, … literally genocided millions (with actual proof) using the Jakarta Method, coups, embargoes, sanctions, assassinations, color revolutions, etc. Surely they wouldn’t lie about China, riiiiight?
are you all bots?
We’re bots because we actually read less biased accounts of what happened instead of regurgitating western propaganda?
I haven’t been able to find one legitimate site confirming it was debunked. All the sites at the top of my search are .cn sites and I’m skeptical of those as they have a reason to be dishonest.
The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective’s Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is a group of Chinese diaspora living in the west, and they compiled an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims. The majority of their sourcing is western, and they cite official Chinese government writing and white papers when relevant.
I also recommend reading the UN report as well as (especially) China’s response to it, which eclipses it in size and detail.These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, Christian nationalist and professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does. Zenz’ work has been thoroughly discredited, yet is supported by western media for its utility in fearmongering. An example is lying about 8.7% of new IUDs as 80%, to back up claims of “forced sterilization,” from this chart:
I recommend you go through these resources.
Thank you, I’m incredibly skeptical but I will legitimately read these with an open mind.
I suggest you read with a fine-toothed comb, then.
offering two contradictory statements isn’t proof of anything
So close to understanding the razor, but yet.
Go back to reddit
Tank Man was disappeared after this
It must be so easy being an anti communist, you can just make up whatever unsourced claims you like and expect people to believe it
Some other guy
Oh well, if “some guy” said it…
So if China is so nice, what is the identity of the “Tank Man”? Why can’t we find him? It is like he “disappeared”.
Well, it is undisputed that the CPC censors all mentions of the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre. Both public and private - the US may lie, but private free speech is still allowed. So can we please stop pretending that China in its current form is not doing evil?
Both public and private
The local CPC deputies have broken into my house multiple times for mentioning it when talking politics with friends (sarcasm). You people are so unserious
From https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2025/05/what-is-the-tiananmen-crackdown/
Alliance vice-chairperson Chow Hang-tung and 25 activists were prosecuted in 2020 simply because they insisted on lighting candles in Victoria Park despite the government prohibiting the vigil that year, ostensibly on Covid-19 grounds. In 2021, after the police banned the vigil once again, Chow was arrested on 4 June after encouraging people on social media to commemorate the crackdown by lighting candles.
Ultimately, Chow was jailed for 22 months for taking part and inciting others to take part in an unauthorised assembly. She and fellow Hong Kong Alliance leaders Lee Cheuk Yan and Albert Ho have also been charged with “inciting subversion” under the National Security Law and all three face a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.
Firstly that’s public.
Secondly
for taking part and inciting others to take part in an unauthorised assembly
Thirdly amnesty famous for publishing the nayirah testimony without any factchecking or corroboration
Fourthly you Brits are really butthurt about losing your colony and your bootlickers being a shunned minority.
Amnesty always manufactures consent for shit, but assuming this is true, why would any government be okay with people commemorating an attempt to overthrow them? You’re so unserious
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I wouldn’t expect a Polish nationalist to have a good grasp on anything but “unarmed student protest” is an entirely misleading categorisation of a violent riot that brutally murdered multiple soldiers who were simply standing guard before the clashes broke out and who’s leaders did interviews specifically detailing their plans to incite massive violence and flee to America.
Look at the Wujek mine riot, miners were attacking militia with sharpened rebars and loudly threatening to lynch the captured militamen, but when single inexperienced detachment of militia which shouldn’t even been there opened fire (and despite entire chain of command from direct commander to minister Kiszczak and gen Jaruzelski absolutely forbidding this) it’s suddenly example of horrible martyrology and one of founding myths of comprador III RP.
Of course hundreds of workers being murdered in the prewar Poland and dozens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of social murders after 1989 are not mentioned ever.
Lemmy turning into a big propaganda machine always trying to pit us all against each other rage baiting Europeans vs Americans vs Asians vs etc. if we could all stop and smell the flowers we would be stronger.
lemmy was primarily a marxist space before reddit’s API update drove a bunch of you here. there’s no grand conspiracy or big plot to divide people on our part; we’re just talking about what we always have while liberals from reddit try to fling shit.
I came here not because of the API change…“you here” doesn’t apply to me. Sorry you don’t like my opinion!
Your opinion is stupid
The image is misleading, but the CPC itself acknowledged at least 241 deaths. Also, you cannot find information about the incident while in China. Can personally confirm.
Also, you cannot find information about the incident while in China. Can personally confirm.
Yeah no information, it’s only taught as part of the mandatory “outline of modern Chinese history” at university.
In that link, they refer to it as:
“The 1989 political turmoil and subsidence.”
That is a really weird way to call a massacre, don’t you think?
Please we all know that the Government hides the search results in China if you look for it. Or are you going to deny that?
Like, why lie?
China bans Tiananmen Square-related web search terms https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18321548
https://www.businessinsider.com/words-china-banned-from-search-engines-after-tiananmen-square-2014-6
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/04/tiananmen-square-online-search-censored
Because massacre is poor categorization of what was a violent clash between rioters and the military acting as riot police. Like why pretend to be a leftists when you’re a Canadian settler shitlib. Clearly not very good at categorising things. Also when did I deny their were restrictions around what is a very sensitive event that had western backing? All I said was that it is taught about as part of a mandatory course at university. The idea it’s fully blacked out is western chauvinist fantasy and honestly not even a very creative one. You are not very intelligent are you?
Go get em, Mr. Shlong!
You know there are photos of the dead people right? And videos?
Canadian Seltler shitllib? Hahaha. Cute, friend. You know nothing about me.
Nice that you went and checked my history as to come up with something to side track my points. I am not sure if you are a CCP shill or just brainwashed in propaganda.
Also, you are moving the goal post, friend. You told the guy you responded to that the Tiananmen Square masacre was not censored. It is. That is my point and provided proof that it is and I can do that without lowering to your level of insults. Clearly, I hit a nerve, it is okay Comrade. Be happy.
There is a reason why put a link in Chinese in an English speaking forum without translaltion.
You know there are photos of the dead people right? And videos?
People die when rioters (whose leaders did interviews explaining their plan to incite massive violence and flee to America) clash with the military did I deny that? It was categorically not a massacre.
You know nothing about me.
From replying to you before I know you’re Canadian and a self proclaimed lib thus 90% chance you’re white thus a settler. So taking it all together Canadian settler shitlib.
Nice that you went and checked my history as to come up with something to side track my points. I am not sure if you are a CCP shill or just brainwashed in propaganda.
Again didn’t check your history we’ve simply talked before. Also holy chauvinism really reinforcing the whole settler shitlib. And it’s CPC not CCP.
Also, you are moving the goal post, friend. You told the guy you responded to that the Tiananmen Square masacre was not censored. It is.
Massive twisting of what was said. He said you couldn’t find any information when in fact it is part of the mandatory university course which is all I pointed out.
Again I must ask are you genuinely unintelligent?
You’re a racist Han bigot. Don’t bother relying. I don’t communicate with stupid racists.
I’m not Han lmao. The irony of you making a racist assumption calling me racist. 🤣
You are referring to unarmed protestors against fully armed military, with tanks? LOL, aha. Damn those rioters attacking the military with their own blood, splattered on the square. Those demons!
Not white. You know nothing about me. Keep Shilling, Comrade. Oh, we talked before? Is that so? Oh, fair, but I do not remember you, nor care to know you. It is true that I am a Liberal and I will give you the decency of not being as petty as you, since I do not have to rely on insults when I have facts and sources.
Again, all you have proven is that I hit a nerve. Can’t even take the slightest of critism.
So, here is the difference of the searches that people did even back in the day, noticed the difference between the searches in Chinese VS the ones outside of China. Thus proving OPs and my point.
For anyone to look, like this is nothing new. This is how China would change results on actual internet searches. https://imgur.com/a/vbkFA
The university course on your link is reframed, obviously. That is the whole point on censorship. I can tell by the other curses and the content that a lot of things are reframed as well. Again, there is reason why you posted a Chinese link in an English focused site. We all know how idealogues think.
Anyway, stop lying. That point remains.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
So, either they do not know, which I fully doubt, if you hear what she says, or they do know, which is the case,but do not want to publicly discuss it on camera and risk getting any type of trouble. Take your pick.
From 2008: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuuddurPLV8&t=86
Rely in common sense comrade. Have a great one, Cheers.
You are referring to unarmed protestors against fully armed military, with tanks? LOL, aha. Damn those rioters attacking the military with their own blood, splattered on the square. Those demons!
They literally immolated and lynched military guards to start the riot. You are extremely fucking arrogant for how little you understand anything.
when I have facts and sources
Lmao. What you actually have is a chauvinist fantasy and an immense arrogance.
Can’t even take the slightest of critism.
you have provided no criticism just a vast misrepresentation of what I said and the events in question.
So, here is the difference of the searches that people did even back in the day, noticed the difference between the searches in Chinese VS the ones outside of China. Thus proving OPs and my point.
Again not what we were talking about he said there was no information implying and perpetuating the nonsense lie that the date/event is scrubbed from history which is factually incorrect in the same way saying Winnie the pooh is banned is factually incorrect.
The university course on your link is reframed, obviously. That is the whole point on censorship. I can tell by the other curses and the content that a lot of things are reframed as well. Again, there is reason why you posted a Chinese link in an English focused site. We all know how idealogues think.
Chauvinism.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
He’s famous because who he is and what he did are completely reframed in the west as some sacrificial martyr jumping Infront of tanks (generally with the implication that he was ran over) whereas in reality he was a random man who wanted the tanks to return to the square and was ushered off by passers by not really a revolutionary figure or particularly relevant to the event as a whole. You people are so insufferably arrogant your vision and imagination must be reality.
Rely in common sense comrade.
“Just believe the western propoganda”. I’m no comrade of yours you Hitlerite settler.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
I genuinely can’t believe a person can be this dumb. Did you ever consider the fact that Tank Man is completely irrelevant for history and it’s only a fucking image for propaganda? Why anyone knows about the image? Because is the image about the square that appears when people talk about the event. This guy is completely irrelevant.
Why is this in c/memes?
Here on .ml we can enjoy content past cat videos.
No way…. This is a bridge too far for me
Because repetition is an effective way of convincing people to accept a narrative, and meme channels tend to be more widely subbed than others.
What is the bottom photo?
The lady who got shot in Minneapolis.
Renée Good was her name
Ok.
Never trust a fascist nation to tell the truth about it’s enemies, especially when those enemies are communists.
You’d think it’d be obvious by now, especially after Iran, but some people really need it beaten in
The US is lying through their teeth about Iran, but Iran is hardly a communist government. They’re a theocratic authoritarian regime. There is no diversification of power in their government. Roles and responsibilities may be delegated out, but ultimate authority rests with the Ayatollah.
I’m not saying Iran is communist, I’m saying it doesn’t matter. If the US considers you an enemy, your reputation will be buried under a deluge of bullshit, one myth stacked on top of another, until the average american conversation about you essentially becomes collaborative fanfiction.
extremely serious and intellectually rigorous
Go back to reddit
Yeah, trust it to tell the truth about it’s enemies though, right?
CW: People posing for a photo
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Never happened. The square was evacuated peacefully, even wikipedia backs this up:
In 2011, three secret cables from the United States embassy in Beijing from the time of the events were leaked and published by WikiLeaks, all of which stated that there was no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square itself.[185] Instead, they said Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters in Beijing outside the square, around Muxidi station, as they fought their way from the west towards the centre.[185] A Chilean diplomat who had been positioned next to a Red Cross station inside the square told his US counterparts that he did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds in the square itself, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops who entered the square were armed only with anti-riot gear.[185][207]
Conflict between rioters and the PLA outside the square around Beijing resulted in ~250 deaths total, soldiers and rioters combined, and the violence was kicked off by rioters lynching and burning alive officers 2 days prior to clearing the square.
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The tanks shown were leaving the square, which was evacuated peacefully. Even wikipedia backs this up:
In 2011, three secret cables from the United States embassy in Beijing from the time of the events were leaked and published by WikiLeaks, all of which stated that there was no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square itself.[185] Instead, they said Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters in Beijing outside the square, around Muxidi station, as they fought their way from the west towards the centre.[185] A Chilean diplomat who had been positioned next to a Red Cross station inside the square told his US counterparts that he did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds in the square itself, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops who entered the square were armed only with anti-riot gear.[185][207]
Conflict between rioters and the PLA outside the square around Beijing resulted in ~250 deaths total, soldiers and rioters combined, and the violence was kicked off by rioters lynching and burning alive officers 2 days prior to clearing the square.
evacuated peacefully… with tanks…
Okay.
Would you prefer I word it as “non-violently?” Nobody died on the square, that’s the point.
And 250 deaths
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You can literally watch the videos of both encounters
Only fash.world blindly repeats imperialist imperialist propaganda
degenerate
Hitler particles detected, .world status verified
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Damn dude being an anticommunist is so easy, you can just make shit up and as long as it FEELS right you can just say it with your whole chest, and proceed to ignore people who actually know what you’re talking about.
Fuckin sweet
Anyway, show me literally any evidence of a tank firing its weapons that day
The tanks shown were leaving the square, which was evacuated peacefully. Even wikipedia backs this up:
In 2011, three secret cables from the United States embassy in Beijing from the time of the events were leaked and published by WikiLeaks, all of which stated that there was no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square itself.[185] Instead, they said Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters in Beijing outside the square, around Muxidi station, as they fought their way from the west towards the centre.[185] A Chilean diplomat who had been positioned next to a Red Cross station inside the square told his US counterparts that he did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds in the square itself, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops who entered the square were armed only with anti-riot gear.[185][207]
Conflict between rioters and the PLA outside the square around Beijing resulted in ~250 deaths total, soldiers and rioters combined, and the violence was kicked off by rioters lynching and burning alive officers 2 days prior to clearing the square.
