Patching in new DRM years after launch seems unlikely to impact pirates, but actively harms legitimate users who play on Steam Deck or mod games they paid for.
Not necessarily. All DRM punishes paying customers, but some also punishes pirates. Very few games with Denuvo ever get cracked, instead the publisher removes it after a while because Denuvo charges a license fee as long as its in your game. E.g. the Hatsune Miku game on steam hasn’t been cracked in the two years it’s been out. So there’s an argument for using it, even if it’s a flawed one.
But these games already went without DRM for years. They’re long since cracked. The only purpose this DRM serves is to make it harder for paying customers to use mods. Not pirates, they can keep using the same mods they’ve always used. This is literally for the purpose of degrading the experience of paying customers. That’s what they mean by “only punishes paying customers”.
Can, but might not. Companies are not notorious for spending effort on products they are abandoning. The only reason they do it with Denuvo is that it charges them a subscription for as long as it’s implemented.
I think you’re misunderstanding things. You trust these companies to do what is best for the consumer. That’s not how the rest of us, or the companies you’re defending, consider things. Their interest is in the bottom dollar. If screwing you makes a buck, they’ll do it. Trusting them to do the right thing is a major player in enshittification.
No, that’s where the service provider’s backups are stored. I don’t have the ability to make my own. That’s a huge stretch and very tortured logic. And even if I went for it, by not being able to make backups at my pleasure I’m still being impacted, so… still, by definition, a negative impact on the paying customer that people pirating the same media don’t have. They just Ctrl C Ctrl V that stuff.
Yeah that’s a huge stretch my guy. What exactly do you (or anyone else, for that matter) need a backup for that you can’t simply download from the distributor?
If there’s another device, you can install Steam on it and copy the file over locally.
You can also freely copy all of your game save files for backup to restore on another installation.
Because it shouldn’t be on me to ask for permission to do stuff with my software that I bought.
Maybe I’m too old, because I remember when I bought a disk and I just copied it and used that. Which is legal, by the way.
Well, alright, I don’t need to remember too far back, because I was ripping some movies today. Which, again, fair game. I paid for them, I get to use them. I shouldn’t have to explain to you, Valve, Netflix or anybody else why I want to back up the thing I bought.
I shouldn’t have to explain to you, Valve, Netflix or anybody else why I want to back up the thing I bought.
If you want to make an argument as to how DRM hurts you, inherently, you do need to explain it. You can’t just show up, go “nuh uh” and expect anyone to be convinced by that.
Well, no. I was happily buying my games on discs and cartridges and my movies on DVDs and tapes and my music in CDs. If they’re going to swing around, tell me I’m buying digital licenses and I can no longer do the legal things I used to do it’s them who owe an explanation.
I have no idea why you feel the need to shill so hard for these things, but it’s clearly not sticking. You’re putting the onus on the customer and, as a customer I get to just say “no, screw you” and keep buying physical media instead. It’s a shame that more people don’t, but it’s pretty obvious that having them take over my computer to limit what I do with my purchases is damaging to me, and I don’t have to like it because you say so.
What? ALL DRM only punishes paying customers.
Not necessarily. All DRM punishes paying customers, but some also punishes pirates. Very few games with Denuvo ever get cracked, instead the publisher removes it after a while because Denuvo charges a license fee as long as its in your game. E.g. the Hatsune Miku game on steam hasn’t been cracked in the two years it’s been out. So there’s an argument for using it, even if it’s a flawed one.
But these games already went without DRM for years. They’re long since cracked. The only purpose this DRM serves is to make it harder for paying customers to use mods. Not pirates, they can keep using the same mods they’ve always used. This is literally for the purpose of degrading the experience of paying customers. That’s what they mean by “only punishes paying customers”.
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Not really. There’s plenty of DRM that has no negative impact on paying customers’.
At an absolute minimum, the DRM prevents me from easily making a backup of my legitimate copy, which I am otherwise entitled to do.
So yeah, by definition DRM has a negative impact on paying customers.
The backups are stored on the same place you downloaded it from.
…until the stores decide to stop offering them.
At which point they can decide to remove the DRM
Can, but might not. Companies are not notorious for spending effort on products they are abandoning. The only reason they do it with Denuvo is that it charges them a subscription for as long as it’s implemented.
I mean of course they probably won’t, but again that is a problem with implementation and not an inherent problem with DRM.
It is an inherent problem with DRM, because if there was no DRM there wouldn’t be a possibility of this happening.
I think you’re misunderstanding things. You trust these companies to do what is best for the consumer. That’s not how the rest of us, or the companies you’re defending, consider things. Their interest is in the bottom dollar. If screwing you makes a buck, they’ll do it. Trusting them to do the right thing is a major player in enshittification.
No, that’s where the service provider’s backups are stored. I don’t have the ability to make my own. That’s a huge stretch and very tortured logic. And even if I went for it, by not being able to make backups at my pleasure I’m still being impacted, so… still, by definition, a negative impact on the paying customer that people pirating the same media don’t have. They just Ctrl C Ctrl V that stuff.
Yeah that’s a huge stretch my guy. What exactly do you (or anyone else, for that matter) need a backup for that you can’t simply download from the distributor?
If there’s another device, you can install Steam on it and copy the file over locally.
You can also freely copy all of your game save files for backup to restore on another installation.
Because it shouldn’t be on me to ask for permission to do stuff with my software that I bought.
Maybe I’m too old, because I remember when I bought a disk and I just copied it and used that. Which is legal, by the way.
Well, alright, I don’t need to remember too far back, because I was ripping some movies today. Which, again, fair game. I paid for them, I get to use them. I shouldn’t have to explain to you, Valve, Netflix or anybody else why I want to back up the thing I bought.
If you want to make an argument as to how DRM hurts you, inherently, you do need to explain it. You can’t just show up, go “nuh uh” and expect anyone to be convinced by that.
Well, no. I was happily buying my games on discs and cartridges and my movies on DVDs and tapes and my music in CDs. If they’re going to swing around, tell me I’m buying digital licenses and I can no longer do the legal things I used to do it’s them who owe an explanation.
I have no idea why you feel the need to shill so hard for these things, but it’s clearly not sticking. You’re putting the onus on the customer and, as a customer I get to just say “no, screw you” and keep buying physical media instead. It’s a shame that more people don’t, but it’s pretty obvious that having them take over my computer to limit what I do with my purchases is damaging to me, and I don’t have to like it because you say so.
We’re all waiting for an example
I think you meant “on the paying customers’ experiences”