Have you uh… actually been to China? Or talked to anyone from China (in real life)? I do both, quite often. Without fail, anyone with the means is actively trying to leave. And not in a “grass is greener” way. Those emigrating to America are fully aware of the political turmoil, they’d just rather be out before it’s not physically possible to leave.

It’s unlike we’ve been told in almost all respects…

Based on testimony from a demonstrably censored platform?

I’m not arguing for American superiority or that the vacuum won’t be easily filled by other countries. But that change isn’t automatically an upgrade.

I won’t lie, I don’t think we’ll ever totally agree. I’m getting the gist that we fundamentally have a different understanding of the human race.

You’re holding people to your own standards, which is admirable because you clearly have your head on straight. I just view people as generally more base and malleable. Animals that react to the stimulus they’re given and environment they’re put in.

It’s why propaganda can work with simple repetition; it’s why ancient cultures and atrocities feel so alien; it’s why there’s a natural evolutionary drift toward tribalism.

From that: this is a generation being left behind educationally, economically, and socially. They know their quality of life is regressing but don’t know why. They’re an audience searching for clear answers.

They’re also the only humans in history to spend more of their formative adolescence on screen time than on other traditional activities.

So they’re starting on the back foot and getting unprecedented exposure to privately operated, centralized media sources. It follows that whoever owns those platforms (or pays enough) can selectively amplify any narrative they want to great effect.

It would have been just as feasible to push their politics to the left as right. If you look at who operates these platforms you’ll find, unsurprisingly, its right wing media moguls. The capitalists with the capital and mechanisms to spread their gospel have done so.

So at the end of the day I think it is reasonable to scold a person who you know should have better media literacy. I just don’t think it makes any sense to extend that to an entire voting block. Its more productive to direct that effort toward the root of the problem, the people pushing the content.

No, they’re making a conscious choice to use the platform. The content itself is whatever pops up and looks entertaining.

If the algorthim shows you 2 center-right videos, 3 hard-right videos, and one nazi rant then are you choosing to be a nazi by watching the center right ones?

Its never actually 3 hours of nazi things. Its an otherwise entertaining video making some off color jokes. It’s a streamer going on one politically dubious rant in a 6 hour stream. It’s a weekly podcast talking to “interesting” people; some benign, some funny, some actual problems… It’s about normalizing the conversation and the ideas. Nobody is getting handed a knife.

Yeah, there are some people take the red pill and actively go down the conspiracy rabbit hole and watch nazi shit. But I’m not gonna go out of my way to crucify people who have shitty ideas in their head at some point, there are lots of people that have stories of escaping the funnel.

Because at the end of the day a vote is just voicing an opinion to most people.

“I was told tariffs aren’t a bad idea”… “Musk has points that there might be wasteful spending”… “Well Rogan endorsed him haha”…

If they were told they’re getting drafted to invade Greenland before they voted, they look at you the same way as the knife guy.

Nothing positive is happening until it happens, we have yet to see Trump comply with a judicial ruling (let alone an emergency injunction). And it’ll get argued up to the SCOTUS before he’d even theoretically stop.

Don’t fall for Lucy pulling the football for the 9th year in a row. Plan and act as if he’s not facing any consequences within the limits of our government, because his record shows he won’t.

Doing only that would just give them more fodder to complain about a deficit. Mass violent resistance is just an excuse for crackdowns and martial law.

One interesting and simple idea I’ve seen is just opting out of the consumer economy. Americans in any socioeconomic strata can just stop buying anything but the bare minimum.

General strikes are effective but hard to coordinate and maintain, most people can’t risk skipping a paycheck. But anyone can switch to beans and rice, cancel subscriptions, learn to repair their own clothes, buy a phone second hand, etc… Since a massive portion of our economy is driven by that spending (68% of our GDP) it would definitely hurt, but they couldn’t ignore it.

It’s easy to do and doesn’t have an outsized impact on poor or at risk groups, and it’s not all or nothing so any way you can cut helps. I wonder how they’d react to 200 million people on an economic hunger strike…

So is it the interest that’s the problem? Or the not working?

You could be unable to work on disability with an inherited house and get pretty much to that poverty line. Why isn’t that the same?

What if there wasn’t interest but I got $5m in the lottery and just decided to spend $1m buying a house in a good neighborhood and paying off debts. Then I just take out 50k out from my mattress per year until I die.

If you’re a certain age and don’t care about your estate you could do the same thing with a line of credit. Now I have negative net worth but I’m choosing not to work while maintaining a decent life.

There is a real, tangible difference between any of these scenarios (yours or mine) and having enough money to shape legislation or buy yourself into the fucking Whitehouse. That just happens to be roughly the difference between ~1 million (living comfortably) and 1+ billion (buying lobbyists)

When is rich to you? Is it $100k? $500k? Or just when you have to start adding “-illion” to the number? Is a 25 year old who worked for 5 years with 100k as rich as someone who worked for 50 years to get 10x that?

The gap does matter, it’s not our fault you can’t comprehend the magnitude of these gaps

$18,000 is only $3k above the federal poverty level, and well below for a family of 2. This sounds like one of those out of touch McDonald’s PR budgets.

Better hope your home never needs a new roof, that’ll be at LEAST 6 months of your passive income gone. Car breaks down? Well you need to fix that because you live in BFE, that’s another month gone.

Not to mention I don’t know what scooter you’re parking in your one room shack to keep taxes and insurance and utilities under $600. Are you fitting health insurance in that too or just offing yourself when you get medical debt? Hope you never have any dependants either, that’s when things get really pricey.

His motivation is pretty clear if you actually look at his political career. You may agree or disagree with him but the way you’re trying to tear into him just shows you don’t have a grasp of the actual problem he presents.

You can go read his tax returns yourself. His income most years is his salary, boosted several times by the release of his books after his popularity. This in total has netted him a few million. You can argue his books should have been published for free, but it’s not some shady stock manipulation.

This site is a good visualization. I’m not sure if it’s up to date but the top end has only gotten bigger. You’re arguing about something on the first screen scroll. By the end of the decade we’re likely to see our first TRILLIONAIRE…

They made a hologram of Tupac, I’m sure they could figure something out

The Federal Election Commission has determined that your state had a fraudulent election. Please remain calm while our jackboots personally conduct a recount…

You really don’t have to consciously consume it. You can literally leave auto-play on YouTube and it will steadily pull you down the rabbit hole. These people aren’t logging in to nazi.com and ravenously looking for content (at least most aren’t).

It’s served directly to them in mainstream platforms, prepared exactly how they like it. And they’re the first generation to be bombarded by this algorithmic targeting for their entire lives.

Should adults still be responsible for what they consume and analyzing it critically? Of course. But given we’re in unprecedented territory and this is (at most) their second time voting in a presidential cycle, I’ll give them a mulligan.

Why would they have to buy it again? They already own it.

I agree it is disappointing, but not enough people remember what it was like to be a confused and arrogant teenager. Let alone in the modern era where all their media comes from platforms funded by billionaires 24/7, politics hasn’t had a shred of decorum in their conscious lifetimes, and the planet is undergoing multiple unprecedented crises.

A lot of people were the same age when GWB was signing the Patriot Act and didn’t realize the consequences of his presidency until much later. Young people are impressionable but they do change.

Thanks for appreciating the struggle, I’ll drink to that 🍻

Even looking strictly at the voting population, Trump got less than 50% of the votes; more people voted “not Trump” than voted for him. That’s before you account for the majority of 90 million non-voters holding left leaning views (studies say irregular voters are as low as 40% republican voters) with either no acceptable candidate to support or living under voter suppression.

Did you know it’s possible to with the presidency with as low as 23% of the popular vote? Guess which color states have a massively oversized impact on the electoral college…

The people getting shot are not Trump voters at this point. More specifically, people that are opposed to absolutely destroying other countries are the first ones targeted.

Even if we all suffered perfectly evenly, only 22% of Americans voted for Trump. Please keep the other 78% in mind.

Putting aside whether or not that’s anathema to the cause, I’m not sure how you’d “other” them in a meaningful way. The reason it works for the right is that they target groups who’s members are publicly visible and can’t voluntarily leave (LGBT+, minorities, foreign religions, etc…)

If you target a group of people for their beliefs (something not overtly visible), they can either relabel their group or plausibly claim their beliefs differ in some way. We already do this for fascists and nazis, but very few people are going to outwardly admit to these ideals. Now they’ll just say they’re “extra-constitutional”, “alt right”, “Christian patriot”, or any other hat a bigot wants to swap out for far right authoritarian.

You can’t “other” them where they already proudly claim a majority (white + Christian) so what are you left with?

There might not be an easy alternative right now.

People tend not to internalize a problem until they can personally see it, and a lot of these problems (deportations, cutting education, handcuffing the CDC, etc…) might not affect them until things get truly bleak. Unless of course they do something reckless like directly cutting funds that goes directly to their wallets (Medicare or Social Security).

Spreading awareness has always been a huge problem. Activists in Tsarist Russia had the same problem of trying to reach out to uneducated rural peasants and their efforts didn’t go smoothly. And of course this was before everyone had hand held disinformation machines in their pockets.

I don’t have a magic bullet but we do have some things going for us. It’s not yet illegal to spread radical ideas, our targets are generally literate, and we still share a fair number of cultural references.

The following is my best guess at advice, I’m just as open to ideas as giving them:

The tricky part is that mainstream social platforms are a non starter. You’d never outweigh the echo chamber. In my opinion digital organization is secondary at best because anything can be suppressed at the whim of server owner, ISP, or government.

So as dumb as it sounds, go forth and talk to people in real life. Be sure you’re educated on what you want to talk about (read your history and theory, know what political buzzwords actually mean). Try to avoid activities that insulate you in your own comfort zone, and gravitate towards ones with wide appeal and low barriers to entry.

Start a woodworking club with some like minded friends or join a book club and offer suggestions. Running group, bodybuilding, birdwatching, whatever… If you want to do some good for your community, join a mutual aid network.

Try to know the narrative these people are living in, even if it’s a fantasy. Avoid trigger words they’re primed to react to, keep it simple and let them draw their own conclusions. Not everyone will be receptive, some people are just assholes.

It’s not sexy but it’s also not that hard to point out glaring injustices in the world. Most people can at least see that far and agree that something needs to change, starting that conversation is first step.

Being reactionary to a nazi salute at a presidential inauguration is warranted, reasonable, and useful.

Being reactionary to my 70 year old neighbor who ate too many paint chips as a child because he had a Trump sign in his lawn for 2 weeks before the election is less useful.

Being reactionary against an anonymous stranger in your own digital echo chamber is pointless (assuming their bad argument isn’t also in bad faith).