The party is dead until they figure out a way to even the media landscape. Harris was a very good candidate with a good campaign relative to the binary alternative option.
But it doesn’t matter because Republicans control the narrative on everything and it doesn’t help that Democrats blow at messaging and recognizing the all-out war we’re in.
People knew what Harris was selling, at least the people who could be persuading to vote Democrat. The DNC’s absolute failure at communication is definitely a problem, but the catastrophic loss they suffered this election can’t be explained by that alone. Many people, with full knowledge of what a Trump administration would mean, sat out of this election. People who would volunteer in democrat campaigns either sat out or voted for Harris quietly. The DNC’s biggest “failure” (they didn’t fail at enriching their corporate donors, so to them it’s a success) is relying too much on being the less shitty shit sandwich.
I’d actually argue people didn’t know what Harris was selling. There was a very well written and well thought out policy platform written up on their campaign’s website, but none of that reached all the Americans who refuse to read anything. The campaign trail was very focused on how Donald Trump was a threat to democracy, but they refused to really draw attention to the Nazi iconography and truly terrifying promises Trump was making. In fact, an awful lot of the campaign trail was backing Israel, promising a more secure boarder, lying about how great the economy was, and promising to reach across the isle to work with the mythical “good Republican.”
And, to give the average American the benefit of the doubt, I don’t think many of them knew the potential dangers of a Trump re-election. I think a lot of people saw the weakly worded Democrat warnings as typical political mud-slinging. Both sides were calling each other the devil incarnate, and both sides refused to back up their claims, so it’s hard to be surprised that Americans just saw it as noise. I think most of them are just scared they won’t make it through the year, like my friends and I are, and got suckered in by the orange man telling them that everything sucks and he’ll make it better.
In fact, an awful lot of the campaign trail was backing Israel, promising a more secure boarder, lying about how great the economy was, and promising to reach across the isle to work with the mythical “good Republican.”
That’s what I was referring to by “what Harris was selling”. She did have well-thought out policy on her website, but she abandoned or watered down said policy whenever her corporate donors requested a “clarification”. One example is her promise to instate a wealth tax, which she continued to water down throughout her campaign until she ended up with an unfulfilled promise from Biden’s campaign.
I can’t seem to find it when I try to look for it, but I saw around here after the election a statistical analysis of Harris’s campaign trail that found that she, as election day came closer, progressively stopped using phrases related to progressive economic policy such as “unions”, “wealth tax” or “housing crisis” and used words related to democracy and Trump such as “democracy” and “rule of law”. Harris started out as a genuinely promising candidate if you ignored her attitude towards Muslim Americans (which would turn out to be her undoing), and as the campaign progressed turned further and further into a right of center corporate stooge until she became Kamala “border wall” Harris and lost all seven swing states to Trump.
I noticed that as well. Her campaign went from electric excitement to, well, I don’t know quite what I’d call it. Resignation maybe? It reminded me a lot of the Hillary campaign by the end, and I continually got the impression that Kamala wasn’t really in the driver’s seat for her campaign. Here’s the moment that I started getting nervous, and someone in the campaign should have started smashing the panic button: Obama lecturing down to black men for not supporting Kamala enough.
HUGE yikes moment when you start finger-wagging a group that’s supposed to be your base for not supporting you enough. Obama’s a smart dude, so I really have no idea wtf he thought he was doing here, and no idea why anyone ever thought staging and publishing this was a good thing to do. This should have been a red flag visible from space in so many ways.
The enthusiasm of the first week of her campaign announcement was through the roof, and I will never forgive the DNC (and her, to be fair; she capitulated) for knee-capping it.
I was genuinely more excited about a campaign than any in my life when Walz and her had their first rally. The first rally I ever watched. And I lived through Obama 2008. That was peek for me. By the end of the campaign I was resigned to vote for her. I did and I contributed money but it was solely because Trump is eviler. I will never forgive them for valuing killing Palestinians than defending our democracy.
I think the DNC sucks and messaging could’ve been better.
But I frankly also believe that for anyone who supposedly what Harris and Trump were selling and found the choice difficult then you’re kind of a moron. Ethically; logically… Zero sense. Yes, Stagnation is infinitely better than fascism intentionally sabotaging the system.
So I choose to hope people actually didn’t know how good Harris was relative to how bad Trump was because mostly rich white men control the vast majority of what people see.
People need to remember… The demographics of Lemmy let’s just say aren’t even remotely reflective of the American electorate. You’re lucky if people watch more than the Fox News in their physician’s waiting room or work breakroom, supplemented by their social media feed and YouTube algorithm peddling Red-pilled incel bullshit and trash like Joe Rogan.
Like, do you think people are actually tuning into AP or NPR or BBC or ProPublica investigations? You think they’re reading long form written journalist pieces or PBS Frontline documents ties? Fuuuuck no. It’s closer to work-drink-sports-talk shows-church-work-bar-sports-social media, rinse repeat.
You’re stupid if you’re unhappy with the status quo. You’re stupid if you have a problem with genocide. You’re stupid if you can’t afford groceries! Can’t you see that billionaires are doing just fine? You’re stupid if you notice that the party abandoned you and still demands unearned perfect fealty no matter what they do.
Anyone who disagrees with the republican-adjacent wing of the party has to be stupid because otherwise we might have to listen to them. And we’ll never do that. They’re stupid and we hate them.
Did you vote for Kamala? Then you’re not stupid. You did what you could, now we have to do more.
I disagree with the “voters are stupid” rhetoric because those people tend to ignore the Democrats’ responsibility in their own loss, but if you read further, that’s not what this person was doing.
I sure feel stupid for doing so. Voted in favor of a pro-genocide candidate, got blamed for her loss because I griped.
I disagree with the “voters are stupid” rhetoric because those people tend to ignore the Democrats’ responsibility in their own loss, but if you read further, that’s not what this person was doing.
It sure looks like they were arguing for further appeasement of the right because everyone who disagrees with them is stupid.
Their central criticism is that people are lulled into more right-leaning positions by right-wing propaganda, which is true: the right wing has bought basically all media. Everybody takes marching orders.
So, people are stupid, but this is a deliberate move: stupidity benefits the right.
If by “appeasement of the right” you mean “accepting of the genocide,” I will fault no person for caring about what’s happening over there. If the democrats wanted to win, they should have let go of their psychotic, white-knuckle grip on the Israel military fund. It doesn’t surprise me at all that this severely weakened their bid for the presidency.
That said, I can’t say we’re in a better position now with Trump. My hope for the people of Gaza now is either maga incompetence, or that Trump and Netanyahu make some kind of fascist quid-pro-quo deal not unlike the “Trump saves TikTok” publicity stunt.
If by “appeasement of the right” you mean “accepting of the genocide,”
And adopting republican border policy, running anti-trans hate in their own ads, courting the endorsement of Dick Cheney, promising to appoint a republican to the cabinet, and yes, continuing to sell arms for genocide.
If the democrats wanted to win, they should have let go of their psychotic, white-knuckle grip on the Israel military fund. It doesn’t surprise me at all that this severely weakened their bid for the presidency.
Agreed.
That said, I can’t say we’re in a better position now with Trump.
Of course we’re not. But this is what Democrats preferred to listening to anyone on the left flank of their own party.
You’re stupid if you’re unhappy with the status quo. You’re stupid if you have a problem with genocide.
Nah. Not what I said. You can be concerned with these things as I am but still find the choice to vote for Harris very easy.
You’re stupid if you can’t afford groceries!
You may be ignorant if you believe grocery prices were in the control of Biden / Harris, especially in the wake of a divided Congress. Even so, the choice to vote for Harris should’ve been incredibly easy.
Can’t you see that billionaires are doing just fine?
Yes, the rich are the problem. I agree. Still should’ve been easy to vote for Harris as opposed to not vote, vote 3rd party, or vote Trump.
You’re stupid if you notice that the party abandoned you and still demands unearned perfect fealty no matter what they do.
All this skirts the underlying point: for anyone who supposedly saw what Harris and Trump were selling and found the choice difficult — even in spite of all those aforementioned factors — then you’re kind of a moron ignorant. Ethically; logically… Zero sense. I’ll rephrase because at least ignorance suggests one can change.
Harris > Trump on Gaza (and the probability of actually effecting future change, notably).
Harris > Trump on Women’s Rights.
Harris > Trump on LGBTQ+ Rights.
Harris > Trump on Immigrants’ Rights.
Harris > Trump on Ukrainian Genocide perpetrated by Russia.
Harris > Trump on Climate Change. (You realize this will kill more people than Gaza in the long-run, right?)
Moreover:
Did Harris move the embassy to Jerusalem? – NO,
Did Harris tell Bibi to, “Finish the Job” like Trump? – NO,
Did Trump say that Palestinians deserve self-determination like Harris did? – NO.
Did Harris work to undermine the ceasefire agreements ahead of the election like Trump? – NO.
Did AIPAC and Bibi think Harris was better for them than Trump? – NO.
Why was this not easy for you? It was CAKE for me, and I care about Gazans, too. There was no magical fairy-tale alternative candidate; this was a binary election. It seemed quite obvious that Harris resented Bibi and the actions of Palestine — but was between a rock and a hard place.
This made all the more obvious by Musk dumping over $70 million in ads into Pennsylvania alone, targeting both Jewish and Muslim communities with literally opposite attack messages on Harris. If that doesn’t hint to the dilemma Harris was in in trying to win this election because of the fucked up Electoral College, then I don’t know what to tell you.
But I frankly also believe that for anyone who supposedly what Harris and Trump were selling and found the choice difficult then you’re kind of a moron. Ethically; logically… Zero sense. Yes, Stagnation is infinitely better than fascism intentionally sabotaging the system.
It’s not stagnation, to make that clear. The Dems were promising a slower slide into rock bottom (they coopted the Republican border wall if you remember that). That aside okay, and? That doesn’t contradict my point. You can consider voters morons, which I don’t agree with but let’s set aside. That is something and whether they were operating off incomplete information is something else; your argument here seems to be built on wishful thinking.
People need to remember… The demographics of Lemmy let’s just say aren’t even remotely reflective of the American electorate.
I mean yes but the idea that the average voter is an uneducated, critical thinking-lacking sack of potatoes who never thinks about politics beyond election day is also wrong. The median voter maybe, but the average voter no. The average voter is an average; the concept includes everything from progressives to far right MAGAsz and I’ll note that part of the reason Biden won in 2020 was his popularity with the former. To take Gaza for example, there’s this poll. People are paying attention more than you seem to be thinking.
Wow that article is damning. As a feeling, thinking human being, I hate what Israel has done. But I am shocked that it was on non-voters’ minds so powerfully. I encourage everyone to check out that link above. It’s not just a poll, it’s an article that answers questions you may have about bias etc.
I mean Trump won all seven swing states and turned like three non-swing states into swing states. His margins weren’t very big but in the electoral college he absolutely wiped the floor with the DNC.
The party is dead until they figure out a way to even the media landscape. Harris was a very good candidate with a good campaign relative to the binary alternative option.
But it doesn’t matter because Republicans control the narrative on everything and it doesn’t help that Democrats blow at messaging and recognizing the all-out war we’re in.
People knew what Harris was selling, at least the people who could be persuading to vote Democrat. The DNC’s absolute failure at communication is definitely a problem, but the catastrophic loss they suffered this election can’t be explained by that alone. Many people, with full knowledge of what a Trump administration would mean, sat out of this election. People who would volunteer in democrat campaigns either sat out or voted for Harris quietly. The DNC’s biggest “failure” (they didn’t fail at enriching their corporate donors, so to them it’s a success) is relying too much on being the less shitty shit sandwich.
I’d actually argue people didn’t know what Harris was selling. There was a very well written and well thought out policy platform written up on their campaign’s website, but none of that reached all the Americans who refuse to read anything. The campaign trail was very focused on how Donald Trump was a threat to democracy, but they refused to really draw attention to the Nazi iconography and truly terrifying promises Trump was making. In fact, an awful lot of the campaign trail was backing Israel, promising a more secure boarder, lying about how great the economy was, and promising to reach across the isle to work with the mythical “good Republican.”
And, to give the average American the benefit of the doubt, I don’t think many of them knew the potential dangers of a Trump re-election. I think a lot of people saw the weakly worded Democrat warnings as typical political mud-slinging. Both sides were calling each other the devil incarnate, and both sides refused to back up their claims, so it’s hard to be surprised that Americans just saw it as noise. I think most of them are just scared they won’t make it through the year, like my friends and I are, and got suckered in by the orange man telling them that everything sucks and he’ll make it better.
That’s what I was referring to by “what Harris was selling”. She did have well-thought out policy on her website, but she abandoned or watered down said policy whenever her corporate donors requested a “clarification”. One example is her promise to instate a wealth tax, which she continued to water down throughout her campaign until she ended up with an unfulfilled promise from Biden’s campaign.
I can’t seem to find it when I try to look for it, but I saw around here after the election a statistical analysis of Harris’s campaign trail that found that she, as election day came closer, progressively stopped using phrases related to progressive economic policy such as “unions”, “wealth tax” or “housing crisis” and used words related to democracy and Trump such as “democracy” and “rule of law”. Harris started out as a genuinely promising candidate if you ignored her attitude towards Muslim Americans (which would turn out to be her undoing), and as the campaign progressed turned further and further into a right of center corporate stooge until she became Kamala “border wall” Harris and lost all seven swing states to Trump.
I noticed that as well. Her campaign went from electric excitement to, well, I don’t know quite what I’d call it. Resignation maybe? It reminded me a lot of the Hillary campaign by the end, and I continually got the impression that Kamala wasn’t really in the driver’s seat for her campaign. Here’s the moment that I started getting nervous, and someone in the campaign should have started smashing the panic button: Obama lecturing down to black men for not supporting Kamala enough.
https://youtu.be/QVD17hg4O7o
HUGE yikes moment when you start finger-wagging a group that’s supposed to be your base for not supporting you enough. Obama’s a smart dude, so I really have no idea wtf he thought he was doing here, and no idea why anyone ever thought staging and publishing this was a good thing to do. This should have been a red flag visible from space in so many ways.
The enthusiasm of the first week of her campaign announcement was through the roof, and I will never forgive the DNC (and her, to be fair; she capitulated) for knee-capping it.
I was genuinely more excited about a campaign than any in my life when Walz and her had their first rally. The first rally I ever watched. And I lived through Obama 2008. That was peek for me. By the end of the campaign I was resigned to vote for her. I did and I contributed money but it was solely because Trump is eviler. I will never forgive them for valuing killing Palestinians than defending our democracy.
I think the DNC sucks and messaging could’ve been better.
But I frankly also believe that for anyone who supposedly what Harris and Trump were selling and found the choice difficult then you’re kind of a moron. Ethically; logically… Zero sense. Yes, Stagnation is infinitely better than fascism intentionally sabotaging the system.
So I choose to hope people actually didn’t know how good Harris was relative to how bad Trump was because mostly rich white men control the vast majority of what people see.
People need to remember… The demographics of Lemmy let’s just say aren’t even remotely reflective of the American electorate. You’re lucky if people watch more than the Fox News in their physician’s waiting room or work breakroom, supplemented by their social media feed and YouTube algorithm peddling Red-pilled incel bullshit and trash like Joe Rogan.
Like, do you think people are actually tuning into AP or NPR or BBC or ProPublica investigations? You think they’re reading long form written journalist pieces or PBS Frontline documents ties? Fuuuuck no. It’s closer to work-drink-sports-talk shows-church-work-bar-sports-social media, rinse repeat.
You’re stupid if you’re unhappy with the status quo. You’re stupid if you have a problem with genocide. You’re stupid if you can’t afford groceries! Can’t you see that billionaires are doing just fine? You’re stupid if you notice that the party abandoned you and still demands unearned perfect fealty no matter what they do.
Anyone who disagrees with the republican-adjacent wing of the party has to be stupid because otherwise we might have to listen to them. And we’ll never do that. They’re stupid and we hate them.
Did you vote for Kamala? Then you’re not stupid. You did what you could, now we have to do more.
I disagree with the “voters are stupid” rhetoric because those people tend to ignore the Democrats’ responsibility in their own loss, but if you read further, that’s not what this person was doing.
I sure feel stupid for doing so. Voted in favor of a pro-genocide candidate, got blamed for her loss because I griped.
It sure looks like they were arguing for further appeasement of the right because everyone who disagrees with them is stupid.
Their central criticism is that people are lulled into more right-leaning positions by right-wing propaganda, which is true: the right wing has bought basically all media. Everybody takes marching orders.
So, people are stupid, but this is a deliberate move: stupidity benefits the right.
If by “appeasement of the right” you mean “accepting of the genocide,” I will fault no person for caring about what’s happening over there. If the democrats wanted to win, they should have let go of their psychotic, white-knuckle grip on the Israel military fund. It doesn’t surprise me at all that this severely weakened their bid for the presidency.
That said, I can’t say we’re in a better position now with Trump. My hope for the people of Gaza now is either maga incompetence, or that Trump and Netanyahu make some kind of fascist quid-pro-quo deal not unlike the “Trump saves TikTok” publicity stunt.
And adopting republican border policy, running anti-trans hate in their own ads, courting the endorsement of Dick Cheney, promising to appoint a republican to the cabinet, and yes, continuing to sell arms for genocide.
Agreed.
Of course we’re not. But this is what Democrats preferred to listening to anyone on the left flank of their own party.
Nah. Not what I said. You can be concerned with these things as I am but still find the choice to vote for Harris very easy.
You may be ignorant if you believe grocery prices were in the control of Biden / Harris, especially in the wake of a divided Congress. Even so, the choice to vote for Harris should’ve been incredibly easy.
Yes, the rich are the problem. I agree. Still should’ve been easy to vote for Harris as opposed to not vote, vote 3rd party, or vote Trump.
All this skirts the underlying point: for anyone who supposedly saw what Harris and Trump were selling and found the choice difficult — even in spite of all those aforementioned factors — then you’re kind of a
moronignorant. Ethically; logically… Zero sense. I’ll rephrase because at least ignorance suggests one can change.If you’re a monster who is just fine with genocide, sure.
I voted like you wanted. I hate both of us for it.
Well since you voted for Harris, I guess you’re not whom I’m speaking to, now, are you? Why then are you making this about you?
I voted for her. I did not find it easy. Anyone who did find it easy after the genocide support is a fucking psychopath.
Moreover:
Why was this not easy for you? It was CAKE for me, and I care about Gazans, too. There was no magical fairy-tale alternative candidate; this was a binary election. It seemed quite obvious that Harris resented Bibi and the actions of Palestine — but was between a rock and a hard place.
This made all the more obvious by Musk dumping over $70 million in ads into Pennsylvania alone, targeting both Jewish and Muslim communities with literally opposite attack messages on Harris. If that doesn’t hint to the dilemma Harris was in in trying to win this election because of the fucked up Electoral College, then I don’t know what to tell you.
It’s not stagnation, to make that clear. The Dems were promising a slower slide into rock bottom (they coopted the Republican border wall if you remember that). That aside okay, and? That doesn’t contradict my point. You can consider voters morons, which I don’t agree with but let’s set aside. That is something and whether they were operating off incomplete information is something else; your argument here seems to be built on wishful thinking.
I mean yes but the idea that the average voter is an uneducated, critical thinking-lacking sack of potatoes who never thinks about politics beyond election day is also wrong. The median voter maybe, but the average voter no. The average voter is an average; the concept includes everything from progressives to far right MAGAsz and I’ll note that part of the reason Biden won in 2020 was his popularity with the former. To take Gaza for example, there’s this poll. People are paying attention more than you seem to be thinking.
Wow that article is damning. As a feeling, thinking human being, I hate what Israel has done. But I am shocked that it was on non-voters’ minds so powerfully. I encourage everyone to check out that link above. It’s not just a poll, it’s an article that answers questions you may have about bias etc.
Calling it a “catastrophic loss” is a bit rich.
I mean Trump won all seven swing states and turned like three non-swing states into swing states. His margins weren’t very big but in the electoral college he absolutely wiped the floor with the DNC.
It was pretty bad.
Literally the worst result since the Republicans won California.