Why are you so happy that people are unrepresented by their options in the voting booth? Don’t you believe in democracy? It’s not like the flaws of First past the post voting only became known in the last election. I certainly saw many comments just like yours when Donald Trump was first elected. Why did blue states refuse to change how votes were counted? Why are they still using FPTP voting?
Are you working to get these people represented? There are alternative voting systems that give people the freedom to vote outside the two party system without a spoiler effect. Here are some videos to reference while you work towards passing electoral reform in your state.
“In reality, there is no such thing as not voting: you either vote by voting, or you vote by staying home and tacitly doubling the value of some Diehard’s vote.” ~ David Foster Wallace
My nice but moronic neighbor is one of those “but he just talks a lot of shit, he won’t do that” types. Surprise: he does talk a lot of shit and he’s increasingly doing that shit too.
So you assume to know what others want? Because I’m right there with them. Non protest/non-voters absolutely helped to put us here. There is nothing at all wrong with pointing this out.
And I believe that anger’s best use now is ensuring that the fucking assholes that did this are called out and learn from it so that if god-forbid we happen to find ourselves here again, they’ll acutely get off their assed and fucking help.
Hey Rhoeri, it’s been a while. How’s the campaign for electoral reform going in your state? I’m sure you’re making alot of progress, you always seem so concerned with 3rd party/non voters and the spoiler effect.
You do want to solve the spoiler effect that is inherent with First Past The Post voting right? Then these people can vote for who best represents them and still have their vote counted against the republicans if their choice didn’t win.
Because the solution is more democracy, not forcing people to vote for your preference. Just keep that in mind while you’re working to get a new voting system implemented. Appreciate your community service.
Electoral reform in my state? It’s going the same as it’s going in the rest of the states:
It’s not going at all. And no amount of protests or petitions is going to change that. Are you not paying attention? Trump essentially owns the military now. We lost that chance to enact anything remotely resembling electoral reform when you gave up everyone’s rights by srating home in protest
It’s game over bud.
You don’t get to sit around on your thumbs doing jack shit in November and then expect everyone to rally in response to fucking your bad decision in March.
You made the bed. Now you get to sleep in it with the rest of us.
“oh the people who won’t do anything will keep doing nothing”
Oh shit whatever will I do with their feelings being hurt. Poor little fee fees. Fuck the people that sat out or protest voted or were dumb enough to pretend Trump actually would help bring peace anywhere much less to Palestine.
What are they going to do, be upset that they have to hear the truth?
So people who do shit all are going to do what exactly when their fee-fees are hurt? People that do nothing are worth nothing and don’t need to be treated better than that.
And all you’re doing is expecting people to kiss your collective asses while you all sit around and smugly talk down to everyone while making bullshit proclamations.
Yeah. I don’t take anyone that says “blueMAGA” seriously, and I don’t believe anyone else should either.
We had a chance to avoid this. You all chose entitlement and stayed home. So stop with the electoral reform bullshit. It’s not happening now that you helped Trump seal the deal.
That’s laughable. After decades of politicians measurably ignoring their constituents and making laws their corporate donors ask for, you accuse people of being egotistical. That’s straight up bullshit dude.
It is a pretty amusing overlap in the people that will screech about victim blaming but can’t seem to wrap their head around the concept that the people ultimately responsible for a crime are only the people doing it.
Bullshit. Those who allowed it to happen are also culpable. Fuck you, protest voters. You could have stopped this by voting for Harris and you chose not to.
He’s blaming the people who didn’t vote. Which is a bullshit theory the conservative Democrats have been pushing to keep from dealing with why they lost.
Which is a bullshit theory the conservative Democrats have been pushing to keep from dealing with why they lost.
No. That is the bullshit excuse that performative faux-leftsts use. The impact of non-voters and anti-electoralists is plain to see for anyone with the slightest comprehension of statistical math that is so basic that is barely qualified as anything above arithmetic.
Every election in my lifetime has resulted in worsening of the human condition because “protest (non-)voters” can’t be bothered to consider the most elementary examples of cause and effect:
Don’t voice your view in an established manner and your view will not be reflected.
There’s no political representation of us on the left because too many can’t be fucked to participate in primaries or the democratic process (as much as it can be called that) either because they buy into the idea that, despite all evidence contrary, not opposing oppressors will somehow make things better or, because, again despite all evidence contrary, offering up minorities, LGBTQ+, and other vulnerable groups as blood sacrifice by enabling the establishment of fascism will somehow magically result in a workers’ revolution and utopia.
TL;DR - Non-voters/protest voters and acceleration can get fucked. The are no allies to LGBTQ+ nor the working class as they are unwilling to do the literal least one can do to try to impact positive change, apparently preferring fascists and corpo dems.
“Every election in my lifetime has resulted in worsening of the human condition because “protest (non-)voters” can’t be bothered to consider the most elementary examples of cause and effect”
You say this as if the Democratic party hasn’t run with exact same strategy the entire time. A strategy that doesn’t work. Followed by yelling at people for not loving them enough (which has also never worked) and doing nothing to address there own shortcomings.
They (rightfully) pointed out the bigotry of American conservatives, and then run a campaign to court this vote and alienate they people they claim as there base. And pick Kamala Harris as the candidate, as conservatives would ever vote for a black woman.
Blindly electing democrats for running as blue team is what got us here, it is not going to get us out of it.
There just isn’t a large leftist movement in the US. They aren’t going to win more than a few seats. And blaming them while running further to the right is exactly what’s happened every election in my lifetime. People have to exert effort to vote in most places, they need to get time off, they need to stand in line for hours, they need to deal with partisan poll workers, and for what? To watch the Democrats do corporate welfare too?
And don’t start with the whole they were warned bit either. Every single cycle the Democrats have said the Republicans would end democracy. So nobody was listening to that anymore. The word fascist has entirely lost it’s meaning in the US.
There just isn’t a large leftist movement in the US. They aren’t going to win more than a few seats.
There isn’t a visible leftist movement in the US for two primary reasons: targeted suppression by elites and intelligence agencies, and anti-electoralism/apathy. I’m not convinced that anti-electoralism isn’t, at least in part, indirect suppression. The number of eligible non-voters is vastly greater than the participating electorate.
And blaming them while running further to the right is exactly what’s happened every election in my lifetime.
This is the same thing that I have seen. However, looking at the data, they’re not actually incorrect. Leftists, largely, have been refusing to participate in electoral politics, which removes their voice from the party’s effective constituency.
Protest voting/non-voting literally has the effect of removing one’s voice from those that the party represents, it doesn’t force them to reshape their politics in any way but that which gives them them reliable voters to campaign to. In a two party FPTP system, not voting for the viable candidate closest to one’s politics doesn’t send them the message to change, it sends them the message that you are not a reliable voter whose they need to represent or listen to. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional, lying, or potentially a state actor.
It’s literally basic statistics.
Do I think that they should knock off their running to center and pushing to the right? Absolutely. It would benefit the populace greatly and we could try fixing some of this shit. But, being a leftist, I am the party’s minority constituency. Most people who vote reliability in the primaries and generals are centrists at best and that is the biggest problem.
People have to exert effort to vote in most places, they need to get time off, they need to stand in line for hours, they need to deal with partisan poll workers, and for what?
That’s not universally the case. Because of leftists sitting out this election in California, the centrists and far-right were able to:
vote down an initiative that would have banned forced prison labor
vote down an initiative improving the ability of municipalities to set local rent controls that was backed by an HIV/AIDS advocacy nonprofit
vote for a landlord corpo-backed revenge initiative that prevents medical advocacy nonprofits from engaging in political advocacy
vote for an initiative increasing mandatory minimum sentencing
California is one of the easiest states to vote in. Gerrymandering and suppression are minimal outside deep red counties. And these were initiatives, not candidates - the data clearly shows that it was a problem of voluntary non-participation. My fellow leftist need to extract their heads from their lower GI tract and take responsibility for their choices.
The problem is progressives have been dutifully voting. And they get shit on every cycle. There may not be a leftist movement but there’s definitely a center left movement and the democrats have been running away from them even while they keep voting and being vocal. They do not care. You want to talk about statistics? Lets talk about the studies that have shown all parties in the US are far more likely to suggest to suggest pro-corporate legislation than legislation that helps the people? It’s literally over 90% of the time that the corporate interests get chosen. The people who say voting doesn’t matter have been right for 20 years. It’s only now that we have this MAGA movement there’s actually been a difference to the average American.
And no, California voted it’s ass off because of the senate race. The same people who vote blue there though would happily vote homeless people into concentration and death camps, literal quotes from around town are like, “I just want them to go away, I don’t care what the government does with them”. And every one of those ballot questions was framed in light of the homeless issue in ads. Homeless people steal, we need to bring back tougher sentences, Homeless people are lazy so once they’re in prison we need to teach them to work, rent controls mean the area goes to shit and homeless people move in, medical nonprofits aren’t giving the money to homeless people so we need to force them to use the money. All of it was bullshit, but the very same people who voted for Schiff ate that shit up.
lgbtq+ is also the most persecuted group followed by AA. and some of these people dint even vote, it was bad enough some voted R, but the non-voters just make them look worst.
Is it? Aren’t we always talking about voter suppression?
Face it, the Democrats didn’t make a positive argument for themselves and people were tired of hearing that Republicans were evil. They promised stuff.
It is. If you have the choice to act, and you choose not to act. You have made a choice.
Aren’t we always talking about voter suppression?
Voter suppression is if there is no choice to vote. I haven’t seen anyone suggest those are people we’re talking about. Those would be referenced by language such as “those that couldn’t vote” not “those that didn’t vote” who we are referring to in this thread.
Oh? Aren’t you guys always yelling about voter suppression? So which is it? Everyone who didn’t vote made a conscious decision or at least some people were prevented from voting?
As for the rest. Yes apathy is a choice. After decades of watching both parties do nothing about their slow slide into homelessness I cannot act surprised that people are more worried about making rent than voting.
like 3 common things popped right after the elections from non-voters : “how is this affecting me now, or whenever” someone on reddit said this was from POC and persecuted groups which makes them look even worst. 2) dint know the incumbent was even running or dropped out 3) They cant be bothered by election to vote(goes back to the social media distractions they have been obssesed with)? the first 2 knew what was going on, chose to ignore it. the final one it was shown that genz dint vote for either side in large numbers, which helped the republicans, because the gop were afraid of gen z voters, and then a portion of them went over to the R-side for the first time(thanks to incel grifters)
Congratulations protest non voters, this is what you voted for.
Why are you so happy that people are unrepresented by their options in the voting booth? Don’t you believe in democracy? It’s not like the flaws of First past the post voting only became known in the last election. I certainly saw many comments just like yours when Donald Trump was first elected. Why did blue states refuse to change how votes were counted? Why are they still using FPTP voting?
Are you working to get these people represented? There are alternative voting systems that give people the freedom to vote outside the two party system without a spoiler effect. Here are some videos to reference while you work towards passing electoral reform in your state.
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
STAR voting
Alternative vote
Ranked Choice voting
Range Voting
Single Transferable Vote
Mixed Member Proportional representation
Electoral reform also only works if people vote.
“In reality, there is no such thing as not voting: you either vote by voting, or you vote by staying home and tacitly doubling the value of some Diehard’s vote.” ~ David Foster Wallace
alot of MAGA are stupid enough to believe hes just joking on what hes going to do, besides the bigotry.
My nice but moronic neighbor is one of those “but he just talks a lot of shit, he won’t do that” types. Surprise: he does talk a lot of shit and he’s increasingly doing that shit too.
he did it his first term, but he quickly covered it up how it was undone. this time he has nothing to lose.
100% agree, and they need to never be allowed to forget this.
And blaming the voters still isn’t the energy you want.
So you assume to know what others want? Because I’m right there with them. Non protest/non-voters absolutely helped to put us here. There is nothing at all wrong with pointing this out.
And as John Lydon would say: Anger is an energy.
And I believe that anger’s best use now is ensuring that the fucking assholes that did this are called out and learn from it so that if god-forbid we happen to find ourselves here again, they’ll acutely get off their assed and fucking help.
Hey Rhoeri, it’s been a while. How’s the campaign for electoral reform going in your state? I’m sure you’re making alot of progress, you always seem so concerned with 3rd party/non voters and the spoiler effect.
You do want to solve the spoiler effect that is inherent with First Past The Post voting right? Then these people can vote for who best represents them and still have their vote counted against the republicans if their choice didn’t win.
Because the solution is more democracy, not forcing people to vote for your preference. Just keep that in mind while you’re working to get a new voting system implemented. Appreciate your community service.
Electoral reform in my state? It’s going the same as it’s going in the rest of the states:
It’s not going at all. And no amount of protests or petitions is going to change that. Are you not paying attention? Trump essentially owns the military now. We lost that chance to enact anything remotely resembling electoral reform when you gave up everyone’s rights by srating home in protest
It’s game over bud.
You don’t get to sit around on your thumbs doing jack shit in November and then expect everyone to rally in response to fucking your bad decision in March.
You made the bed. Now you get to sleep in it with the rest of us.
All you’re doing is ensuring people ignore the Democrats. They hate politics. They don’t trust you or the parties. Yelling at them just confirms it.
“oh the people who won’t do anything will keep doing nothing”
Oh shit whatever will I do with their feelings being hurt. Poor little fee fees. Fuck the people that sat out or protest voted or were dumb enough to pretend Trump actually would help bring peace anywhere much less to Palestine.
What are they going to do, be upset that they have to hear the truth?
I’m sorry but are you yelling into the void or trying to motivate people to vote?
This is Lemmy, we’re all yelling into the void here good fellow.
So people who do shit all are going to do what exactly when their fee-fees are hurt? People that do nothing are worth nothing and don’t need to be treated better than that.
They will continue to do nothing. Which is, if I understand what you want, counter to your intention.
And all you’re doing is expecting people to kiss your collective asses while you all sit around and smugly talk down to everyone while making bullshit proclamations.
All you’re doing is demanding people to vote for your preference while doing nothing about getting people representation.
Keep me posted on how the electoral reform campaign is going in your state. Thanks
Yeah. I don’t take anyone that says “blueMAGA” seriously, and I don’t believe anyone else should either.
We had a chance to avoid this. You all chose entitlement and stayed home. So stop with the electoral reform bullshit. It’s not happening now that you helped Trump seal the deal.
That’s laughable. After decades of politicians measurably ignoring their constituents and making laws their corporate donors ask for, you accuse people of being egotistical. That’s straight up bullshit dude.
It is a pretty amusing overlap in the people that will screech about victim blaming but can’t seem to wrap their head around the concept that the people ultimately responsible for a crime are only the people doing it.
Bullshit. Those who allowed it to happen are also culpable. Fuck you, protest voters. You could have stopped this by voting for Harris and you chose not to.
Oh nono there’s also culpable apathy
The Peter Parker principle.
How is this blame? This is what the voters wanted. This is what they are getting.
He’s blaming the people who didn’t vote. Which is a bullshit theory the conservative Democrats have been pushing to keep from dealing with why they lost.
No. That is the bullshit excuse that performative faux-leftsts use. The impact of non-voters and anti-electoralists is plain to see for anyone with the slightest comprehension of statistical math that is so basic that is barely qualified as anything above arithmetic.
Every election in my lifetime has resulted in worsening of the human condition because “protest (non-)voters” can’t be bothered to consider the most elementary examples of cause and effect:
Don’t voice your view in an established manner and your view will not be reflected.
There’s no political representation of us on the left because too many can’t be fucked to participate in primaries or the democratic process (as much as it can be called that) either because they buy into the idea that, despite all evidence contrary, not opposing oppressors will somehow make things better or, because, again despite all evidence contrary, offering up minorities, LGBTQ+, and other vulnerable groups as blood sacrifice by enabling the establishment of fascism will somehow magically result in a workers’ revolution and utopia.
TL;DR - Non-voters/protest voters and acceleration can get fucked. The are no allies to LGBTQ+ nor the working class as they are unwilling to do the literal least one can do to try to impact positive change, apparently preferring fascists and corpo dems.
So throughout your life time, election after election, you saw people not being represented by their choices in the voting booth and you did nothing?
Sounds like you understood the voting system was mathematically flawed in your preferred political party’s benefit and wanted to keep it that way.
“Every election in my lifetime has resulted in worsening of the human condition because “protest (non-)voters” can’t be bothered to consider the most elementary examples of cause and effect” You say this as if the Democratic party hasn’t run with exact same strategy the entire time. A strategy that doesn’t work. Followed by yelling at people for not loving them enough (which has also never worked) and doing nothing to address there own shortcomings. They (rightfully) pointed out the bigotry of American conservatives, and then run a campaign to court this vote and alienate they people they claim as there base. And pick Kamala Harris as the candidate, as conservatives would ever vote for a black woman. Blindly electing democrats for running as blue team is what got us here, it is not going to get us out of it.
There just isn’t a large leftist movement in the US. They aren’t going to win more than a few seats. And blaming them while running further to the right is exactly what’s happened every election in my lifetime. People have to exert effort to vote in most places, they need to get time off, they need to stand in line for hours, they need to deal with partisan poll workers, and for what? To watch the Democrats do corporate welfare too?
And don’t start with the whole they were warned bit either. Every single cycle the Democrats have said the Republicans would end democracy. So nobody was listening to that anymore. The word fascist has entirely lost it’s meaning in the US.
There isn’t a visible leftist movement in the US for two primary reasons: targeted suppression by elites and intelligence agencies, and anti-electoralism/apathy. I’m not convinced that anti-electoralism isn’t, at least in part, indirect suppression. The number of eligible non-voters is vastly greater than the participating electorate.
This is the same thing that I have seen. However, looking at the data, they’re not actually incorrect. Leftists, largely, have been refusing to participate in electoral politics, which removes their voice from the party’s effective constituency.
Protest voting/non-voting literally has the effect of removing one’s voice from those that the party represents, it doesn’t force them to reshape their politics in any way but that which gives them them reliable voters to campaign to. In a two party FPTP system, not voting for the viable candidate closest to one’s politics doesn’t send them the message to change, it sends them the message that you are not a reliable voter whose they need to represent or listen to. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional, lying, or potentially a state actor.
It’s literally basic statistics.
Do I think that they should knock off their running to center and pushing to the right? Absolutely. It would benefit the populace greatly and we could try fixing some of this shit. But, being a leftist, I am the party’s minority constituency. Most people who vote reliability in the primaries and generals are centrists at best and that is the biggest problem.
That’s not universally the case. Because of leftists sitting out this election in California, the centrists and far-right were able to:
California is one of the easiest states to vote in. Gerrymandering and suppression are minimal outside deep red counties. And these were initiatives, not candidates - the data clearly shows that it was a problem of voluntary non-participation. My fellow leftist need to extract their heads from their lower GI tract and take responsibility for their choices.
The problem is progressives have been dutifully voting. And they get shit on every cycle. There may not be a leftist movement but there’s definitely a center left movement and the democrats have been running away from them even while they keep voting and being vocal. They do not care. You want to talk about statistics? Lets talk about the studies that have shown all parties in the US are far more likely to suggest to suggest pro-corporate legislation than legislation that helps the people? It’s literally over 90% of the time that the corporate interests get chosen. The people who say voting doesn’t matter have been right for 20 years. It’s only now that we have this MAGA movement there’s actually been a difference to the average American.
And no, California voted it’s ass off because of the senate race. The same people who vote blue there though would happily vote homeless people into concentration and death camps, literal quotes from around town are like, “I just want them to go away, I don’t care what the government does with them”. And every one of those ballot questions was framed in light of the homeless issue in ads. Homeless people steal, we need to bring back tougher sentences, Homeless people are lazy so once they’re in prison we need to teach them to work, rent controls mean the area goes to shit and homeless people move in, medical nonprofits aren’t giving the money to homeless people so we need to force them to use the money. All of it was bullshit, but the very same people who voted for Schiff ate that shit up.
lgbtq+ is also the most persecuted group followed by AA. and some of these people dint even vote, it was bad enough some voted R, but the non-voters just make them look worst.
deleted by creator
FAFO
Tell that to the DNC
I’ll point you back to the article. And to my comment: Congratulations protest non voters, this is what you voted for.
Literally what protest non voters voted for.
Sigh. They didn’t vote. That’s quite literally not a vote. No matter how hard you want to blame them for something they didn’t do.
Inaction is a chosen action.
Is it? Aren’t we always talking about voter suppression?
Face it, the Democrats didn’t make a positive argument for themselves and people were tired of hearing that Republicans were evil. They promised stuff.
It is. If you have the choice to act, and you choose not to act. You have made a choice.
Voter suppression is if there is no choice to vote. I haven’t seen anyone suggest those are people we’re talking about. Those would be referenced by language such as “those that couldn’t vote” not “those that didn’t vote” who we are referring to in this thread.
that is literally a vote, as the saying goes, standing by not to doing anything is bad as helping the enemy.
That’s not a saying. And no. It still isn’t a vote.
Sigh. They made a choice that amounted to voting for this. An intentional and deliberate choice. Thus, this is what they voted for. Congratulations!
Oh? Aren’t you guys always yelling about voter suppression? So which is it? Everyone who didn’t vote made a conscious decision or at least some people were prevented from voting?
As for the rest. Yes apathy is a choice. After decades of watching both parties do nothing about their slow slide into homelessness I cannot act surprised that people are more worried about making rent than voting.
I’ll again point you to the article. And also again: Congratulations protest non voters, this is what you voted for!
You may continue your mental backflips. Ciao.
like 3 common things popped right after the elections from non-voters : “how is this affecting me now, or whenever” someone on reddit said this was from POC and persecuted groups which makes them look even worst. 2) dint know the incumbent was even running or dropped out 3) They cant be bothered by election to vote(goes back to the social media distractions they have been obssesed with)? the first 2 knew what was going on, chose to ignore it. the final one it was shown that genz dint vote for either side in large numbers, which helped the republicans, because the gop were afraid of gen z voters, and then a portion of them went over to the R-side for the first time(thanks to incel grifters)
Choosing inaction is a choice and one that only ever helps the oppressors.