So you need a shit tonne of mods to make this AAA game enjoyable?
The absolute state of AAA gaming nowadays.
I played the game 40+h without any mods and had a lot of fun. It is very much enjoyable without mods. Can mods make the game better? Yes, sure Are the mods needed to have fun with the game? Absolutely not.
For my curiosity, what on Earth could you possibly do for those 40 hours? Cause for me that's about 5 times more than it's worth spending with the game in its current state.
I'm 60 hours in and haven't touched the outpost, ship building, or equipment modding. Main quest and 2 faction side quests completed. I've enjoyed my time and bought the game with the expectation that it would be FO4 with some things improved some things worse and a new setting.
There are definitely failings and it's not a 10/10 game but for a lot of people it's a great game. The proc gen system needs more variety but that can be improved through updates and mods. If you prefer handcrafted content follow the quests and you'll see minimal repeats of the POIs. I don't regret my purchase one bit and would be fine if no DLC, mods, or updates happen even though I prefer they do. End of the day make your own decision based on what you like just realize it's not a dumpster fire and not the perfect game that everyone should run out and play.
I did more or less like you. I tried the outpost a bit, but when I realized they were irrelevant (same with modification and ship building) I just continued the main quest.
The dame has flaws, and I generally don't buy games when they just come out, but I'm not disappointed in this purchase, despite the flaws of the game.
Lots of cool side quests, a main quest that is one of the best from Bethesda, exploring the universe. And yes even the power puzzles from time to time to unlock a new power. I have about 100h (hard to say as steam is not logging the time for me anymore because I use mod manager and sfse) now (started with modding after entering NG+ at about 40h and still find new fun things to do. I am in NG+2 at the moment.
Mods I use are mostly cosmetic (I love to change some posters or magazine covers when ich switch NG+) or QoL like faster animations or better UI.
Side quests. The game is about side quests
You keep asking this in this thread. What answer do you want? The game has a shitload of content in it. I'm 35ish hours in and I have so many random quests and things to do. I've spent hours wandering around planets. Around cities. In space stations. Scanning things, reading stuff.
It's completely fine if what the game has to offer doesn't appeal to you, but if you truly cannot comprehend how anyone could enjoy it, then I'm afraid you just don't have much perspective.
This is, objectively speaking, a large scale open world game with hundreds of hours of content. It should be self evident that what it has to offer will appeal to some and not to others. How can you think that because it doesn't appeal to you, it shouldn't appeal to anyone? That makes no sense.
I have 60 hours in and just got to the temples. There's a ton of things to do. I'll probably get 100 hours into the base game and then many, many more hours from mods.
First Bethsda game you've played? They make a great frame, but half-ass the interior lol.
Blame Skyrim
Which one? ;-)
Considering the main quest is like 10 hours long and then the game tells you to just wander around I'd say yes.
So your paying what like $80 for the "game" then needing the community to make it decent? So glad I haven't bought it
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Sounds about right
That's the entire point of Bethesda games, and has been for 20 years.
So you need to remove entire gameplay segments in order to make this crap somewhat enjoyable? Jesus.
Someone yesterday said they don't buy Bethesda games because they're good at launch, instead they buy them because the modding community is so prolific.
Paying $60-70 for a game that requires teams of unpaid volunteers to make it playable after launch.
I bet Bethesda LOVES that guy.
This is why I bought it really. I never expected it to be good. But always enjoy what the community can do.
But doesn't the mods take time? So buying it on a sale later would be better because it is cheaper then and has more content/the content you want?
Mods exist now and have since day one. They've already made the game much better, but you are right they arent great yet cause they dont have the GECK. I do like to have a sort of "vanilla" playthrough before super mods. I didn't clarify that.
Some of the QOL mods out are great. Loving the UI mods for inventory.
Yeah kinda. I bought it to play the stock game with a few tweaks. But when creation kit comes out I'll be back. And then again. And again.
People have thousands of hours into skyrim. You think that game has more than 100 hours of content? It's years of going back and enjoying mods and the community surrounding them.
Yeah Bethesda profits off it. But you'd be surprised how many people pirated the game, eventually just buying the "goty" edition on sale.
Tbf vanilla Skyrim had more than 100 hours of content, just not story driven. Back when it came out I played well over that on PS3 in a single save with no mods. I explored every dragon shrine and collected all the priest masks in that playthrough. I did loot every damm vase though and inventory mgmt was slow. I got crafting up to 100 naturally, etc. Then made new characters eventually. Im sure I spent more than 300 hours over the years before I went to PC and installed mods
Fair enough. You know what I was trying to say. I'm over 130 hours right now on my first playthrough on starfield with no story mods just ui
Modders generally only make mods for games that they are enthausiastic for. Its not a given that Starfield will have a modding scene on par with Skyrim.
No, not a given you are right. But regardless whether its on par with skyrim I'm interested in what they do the same way I was with fallout 4 despite not thinking that game was particularly good myself.
I've had 130 hours of fun, still tons to do, and have no idea what temples are. I think I already got my money's worth.
If temples are needlessly tedious I wouldn't hesitate to mod them out.
How did you get around how empty the game is? I played a few hours but it is just so empty. Being in a city just means either quick travelling or walking through 100s of meters without any interesting npc or anything at all. I felt skyrim did it much better.
Most people have talked about how empty things are by talking about the planets. I feel like that part feels too full if anything. They aren't empty enough to give it character. The same goes for almost every other locations. They're so full of junk that they're empty of character.
Do what? Anytime I've walked through a new city I immediately get bogged down with side quests from every other NPC.
I played hundreds of hours of Elite Dangerous, Starfield is crowded by comparison. The universe is mostly empty and I don't mind that in a game.
I am waiting for official mod support to make it into a real game. There are so many awesome mods and I've tried a few but I'm too lazy to manually install them. Also I'm so not going to go through the storyline amount 9 times…
Factorio has a mod manager built in. It can browse, download, install mods all right there. It even syncs mods to save files and checks for updates. Factorio mods have better support than most games do. I really wish some other developers would put that kind of effort into mods. Just think of what, say, Minecraft could be if it had that.
Likewise the Paradox launcher has pretty good mod support. I think you have to add mods externally, but you can create profiles and things where one profile could be for The World of Darkness games and another could be for Game of Thrones, or whatever. You can easily swap between them without any trouble.
Many of them can be installed using Vortex Mod Manager from Nexus mods. It helps. Still, the mods can only do so much until mod tools release.
Someone had to fix their horrible UI on day one.
Are you new to Bethesda games or it has just been a while? 🙂
I remember starting Skyrim for the first time and making it as far as the character selection screen (well, after spending a few hours fixing the no-voices bug) at which point I went wtf is this crap and went looking for mods.
I was hit with the bouncy horse bug the very first time I booted up Skyrim.
Maybe I was just less jaded in 2011 but was Skyrim ever this bad? I even enjoyed Fallout 4 - you know… for what it is.
The original vanilla Skyrim was pretty terrible. Don't get me wrong it was playable but it was a very forgettable and unimpressive game. The low quality assets, the bugs, the half-assed talent trees, the uninspired and unfinished quest lines, the dumb AI, the barren ugly towns and landscapes, the bad UI etc. Just think about all the things you have to fix nowadays with mods to play it properly, nevermind adding new stuff.
Incorrect. Vanilla, unmodded Skyrim is one of the best games of all time, despite the issues. Mods just bring it from a 9/10 to an 11/10.
See? I can voice my opinions as if they're objective fact, too.
But it is facts In talking about. Nobody in their right mind will pretend there weren't bugs, or that the quests or talent trees or crafting or alchemy were well made, or that the AI was good etc.
All you're saying is that you liked the game in spite of all that — either that or you can't even remember how bad it was before the mods.
Skyrim's greatest virtue will always be how moddable it is. But that still doesn't mean that Bethesda put out a great game in 2011.
Nobody's said the game was flawless, but I, at least, never experienced any bugs or design issues that detracted from the overall incredible experience.
Nobody in their right mind will pretend there weren't bugs, or that the quests or talent trees or crafting or alchemy were well made
You're conflating facts with opinion. I thought the quests and perk trees were, for the most part, very well made.
The lack of spellmaking was absolutely heartbreaking for fans of the series.
Somewhere in the vast chasm between "these are the best gameplay element ever conceived" and "this crap cannot be enjoyable with these left in" lies the actual description of their impact for a normal person.
They are perhaps marginally tedious. It bothered one modder enough that he modded them out with a mod that has about 7600 unique downloads. It bothered millions of others so little that they…just played the game anyway.
Dima's Memories comes to mind
All game content and story issues aside, what pisses me of the most is that a month after release, we still only had a microscopic amount of bugfixes that don't even address some of the larger issues with the game.
I don't want to bring up BG3 again, but at this timespan after the game release, Larian already fixed THOUSANDS of bugs, big and small and overall, the game was much less obviously buggy than Starfield is. It's issues were more inconsistencies in logic and a handful of quest breakers, but otherwise not even noticeable until you read the patch notes.
It's crazy to me there's so little action from Bethesdas side in fixing this heap. I guess it rolls into their bullshit PR of pushing for Awards (they are literally looking to get a Grammy …) and saying the game is nigh on perfect.
Larian needs a good reputation to sell
Bethesda has a bad reputation and still sells so they don’t need to fix it. Their reputation is to make games with the things you outlined specifically
Larian also just gives a fuck about putting out a quality game.
Can confirm, Divinity 1 and 2 and both fantastic and got free massive content updates
I'd wager technical debt is the reason. It's no secret that Bethesda's engine is bad. Bad code makes it harder to do bug-fixes, because it's harder to find the root cause of things and the risks of having accidental side-effects is far higher. There's only so many hacks and emergency fixes you can slap into a codebase before it becomes a house of cards that collapses if you breathe on it the wrong way.
Hopefully having MS money will allow them to take the time to learn/create a new engine, it already showed its limits in Skyrim
Yeah because Windows is definitely a flawless product
Might be a shot in the dark here, but a game engine seems like it would be different than an operating system.
Oh
so sorry
You get the "technically correct but missed the point" awardYou're the one who brought up Windows where it had no place. They said MS money not MS OS developers.
And the MS OS developers are backed by…?
I forgot Lemmy is a continuous Linux circlejerk, my bad.
Right?
I too, was trying to figure out what the fuck this guy was getting at until it hit me that they hate windows so much they can’t stop thinking about it.
The engine is what makes the games so great though, no other engine I know is so flexible and open for mods, while at the same time can keep states for huge numbers of game objects that can be manipulated and moved freely in the whole Game world. Yes it has limitations but I am happy to live with those in exchange for what it enables. It is more then a fair trade in my eyes.
When has Bethesda ever released patches to fix anything short of game breaking bugs? And even then more often than not they don't fix those.
I mean, some of the most popular mods for fallout 4 and skyrim were community patches. I'm not saying I agree with that practice, just that this is par for the (shitty) course for Bethesda. Starfield probably won't be an actually good game until there are thousands of mods for it.
Yeah, people tend to forget how shitty Skyrim was at launch. It was completely unplayable on PS3 for literal months.
Please explain the larger issues with the game. I have like 50 hours into it and the only things I've noticed were 1 glitched quest (Madam Devine won't progress, which was fixed with 1 command) and some companion bonuses not applying. Also my chameleon-wearing companion's head would remain invisible sometimes! But largely the game has played well. It's great to bitch and moan but what actual bugs are you talking about, because personally I haven't seen them!
I had to use a cheat and kill a achievements because into the unknown was bugged. Where the temple should have spawned there was a mining rig and the scanner never distorted. It's a pretty common issue reported over and over again on their discord (which is a freaking horrible way to deal with support BTW). And then on the final quest one of the mini bosses clipped through an elevator and I had to wait like 10 mins while he decided to teleport behind me.
I've noticed exactly 2 issues so far myself.
- Rarely, outposts can become unbuildable. You have to save and reload
- The bounty system is slightly more jank than I'm used to. Sometimes I'll get a 15000 bounty for a stealth kill while unseen - those 15000 bounties never go away from witness death. Other times a 650 bounty that immediately goes away from "last witness died". I had to save-scum a pirate ship because it happened with some specific folks, and I solved it by chucking a grenade into the bridge. I commented elsewhere, grenades are super-stealth and you usually get away with throwing a grenade in full view in a crowded room if you can hide before it blows up.
I'd like to see #2 fixed/improved, but honestly don't mind either very much.
I got Hogwarts game the other day and there are known bug affecting gameplay for months. That fucking shield flashing up constantly is painful.
I'm almost certain most of the team went on vacation after launch. However, that should probably be over by now and there still hasn't been much of anything as far as I'm aware.
Why does this piss you off? Do you make a habit of getting angry at very predictable things? They've always done this.
"This is the way it's always been done" is also the same rhetoric bigots use to justify racism. Just because Bethesda has always sucked ass doesn't mean anyone likes it or wants them to continue to suck ass.
What the fuck are you on about? I'm not defending Bethesda. I'm saying that if a company makes games with the exact same kind of flaws every time - getting upset when they do it again suggests the issue might be with the inability to make basic inference.
It's like if you don't like chocolate, buy a bar of chocolate, and going "Gah! This one has chocolate too!".
They didn't rewrite the creation engine. It's going to have the same feeling and issues as other games made with that engine. It wouldn't have to be this way if they had done a good job. But, they don't seem to have to do that for a lot of people to enjoy their games. But being surprised by it? Nah, that's on you (figuratively)
Nobody is saying they were surprised by it; they're saying they are disappointed in it.
Being disappointed requires unmet expectation. "Surprised". Why don't you pick a word you prefer that conveys unmet expectations? I think you know perfectly well what I mean. And if you don't, then, well, I'm not here to argue.
Seriously fuck those temples. It already takes two minutes to walk from the ship, and now I gotta spend two minutes floating around in zero G?
TWO HUNDRED AND FORTY TIMES?
Two hundred and forty times?
Two hundred and forty times?
Without spoilers, there are 24 temples, and to max out what you get from them you need to complete each one ten times
bruh
~ psb
omg. I'm just 15 hours in, haven't discovered temples yet, but that seems unconscionable. Like, MMO levels of grind. I mean, I've happily put hundreds of hours into each TES-offline, FO-offline, Deus Ex, CP2077, BG3. I don't mind repetitive if the mechanic is fun.
MMO grind is for when you expect your customers to spend hundreds of hours just hanging out with their friends and you need to find something for them to do. It doesn't have to be fun or rewarding, just distracting. Maybe TESO and FO76 have distorted their priorities.
The “puzzle” is that when you enter the temple, it goes zero-g and a spinny thing in the middle pops up. You have to float to a thing that looks like a spinning top, and once you float through it, another one appears. You float through a dozen of them or so and then you get a space power. Such a colossal failure of game design that this was acceptable to have as any puzzle, but the audacity to make it literally the same puzzle at every other temple completely boggles my mind.
240 times. Sometimes a dude appears when you leave the temple, and he’ll shoot at you. There are better puzzles on the kids menu at Denny’s.
The number isn't really the issue. The issue is that every single one is exactly the same. Skyrim had like 80? words of power but they were fun because you had to beat a boss or clear a dungeon or do a quest. In Skyrim you got at least some personal touch to getting those words.
In Starfield it's always the same 1-2 minute walk from ship to temple and then float around in a small room until the central thing opens and then you get teleported outside the temple where you kill 1 guy that 90% of the time spawns directly in front of you. If it was as many times as in Skyrim it would still be mind numbingly boring, because there's nothing interesting about them.
Nine times.
watches number go up on computer screen
Grace!
To 100% it, yes. It has to be done ever several new game cycles so you'll also have to go through the other shit multiple times too. I don't think anyone is expected to do that though. The new game plus stuff undermines the outpost system though. It'll be gone your next cycle, so just don't bother I guess? The ideal meta progression would be to rush through the main story and complete all the temples on your cycle then move on.
I saw a bit of those on stream and thought maybe the time affected the quality of the result… but no. It's just filler shit to get your space dragon speech spell or whatever. Then the enemies are all bullet sponges. It all seemed very transparent and very familiar.
My experience with starfield is "ughh this is annoying, ughh this part sucks, oooh thats kinda cool" and then I check my save file and have over 130 hours. So basically my typical Bethesda experience. 10/10 would do again.
This just sounds like abuse
Stockholm syndrome 😄
This also shocked me when playing Starfield, I basically just completed one of the faction quests and basically just spent time building and stealing ships and my playtime is more than 100 hours. WTF.
Same but i never made it past 50h where Skyrim got 1500 and counting out of me as there are far less annoying things to deal with.
I like starfield overall but it definietly is a weaker game than skyrim
FULLY agreed.
Huh, I haven't come across a single one of these temples so far and I'm almost 90 hours in. I guess I need to give the main quest more attention.
Truly living the sandbox dream there.
You need to visit temples to get powers. They're like words of power in skyrim.
Are these powers worth prioritizing the main quest over whatever ADHD direction I head next?
Easier to show than to explain.
I'm not really looking for spoilers so I only took a quick glance, but it looks neat. I heard the main quest line wasn't that long so I've been avoiding it; however, if there are that many powers to unlock, it can't be too short. I'll probably resume those quests tonight.
They become semi-side quests once you reach a certain point in the main quest line. Technically, I think you only have to collect just one to three of them to finish the story. I'm not 100% sure though, I too have been too distracted by non-mainline quest thingies.
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I just did my first one after about 50 hours and I really hope there's not many of them… I didn't know what I was doing or if I was doing it right untill I passed it.
Now yank out the rest of the boring Starfuckers plot. The game is worse because of the main "story" (and NG+ shite).
Starfuckers INC.
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Are you able to load these mods on console, or is the game just unplayable?
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Removing content from the game you paid for, LMFAO
Emjoyment/hour should be the measure of a good game. This sort of a thing only works to increase time played, not time enjoyed. It's only a negative.
sure if wasting your money adds to your enjoyment go ahead, the rest of us gonna have a laugh though
What? Wasting money by not wasting my time on something not enjoyable?
Wasting money by buying the not enjoyable thing, pay attention
First: I didn't.
Second: Some people find the game enjoyable enough. Not every part will be though. If I turn off the startup logo shit, am I wasting my money? That's part of the vanilla experience that I'm now missing, right? How is this different if not?
Tfw you consider gameplay equal to company logo, lmfao go ahead bro it's your money I'm just having a laugh
Tfw you consider that part gameplay.
I've got better stuff to do with my time then those temples and that more important than any "value" I lose not engaging in it. However, how is it valuable to do? If it isn't enjoyable, it wastes time, and I don't get anything for it, isn't that the reverse of value? Isn't the smart thing to do removing it? Wtf is wrong with you where you'd want to engage with something you don't enjoy?
He said, standing by himself.
what's the criteria for that? no comment likes? lmao
Idk, what's the criteria for assuming everyone or even a group of people agrees with you?
You brought it up you tell me
So you clearly didn't buy the game or play it. Why are you even here?
If assumptions make you feel better for removing stuff you paid for, go ahead as well
Tell me more about what is being removed and why you enjoy it so much you want to keep it in
