Edited title to match articles title.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Hamas awful actions

    Didn't happen in a vacuum…

    There's reasons people are willing to die in a war they have no chance of winning.

    It's stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death.

    • Chariotwheel@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      I mean, at the same time I can't support mass rape. Or rape in general.

      Also not a fan of carrying around naked corpses of multilated people. Not a fan.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You think every Palestinian is doing that?

        That's the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that.

        The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace.

        • Chariotwheel@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          You think every Palestinian is doing that?

          Which part of "Hamas awful actions" made you think that I extend this to all Palestinians?

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I mean, at the same time I can’t support mass rape. Or rape in general

            If the actions of a few are enough for you not to support Palestinians…

            Then yeah, you're extending that to all Palestinians.

            • Chariotwheel@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Why do I need to support mass rape to support the Palestinian peoples right to a state and a free life?

              At what point is mass rape necessary for that?

              Rape is wrong and I stand by that in what appears to be a surprisingly controversial move.

              • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                You don't…

                No one said you had to, even suggested you should…

                But when you take the actions of a few and blame an entire population for the actions of those few…

                That's bigotry. That's no different than seeing a gay child abuser and claiming all gay people abuse children, or seeing a Black drug dealer and saying all Black people are now drug dealers.

                Hell, I'm American and was in the military. American military members rape other American military members at a truly disturbing rate. Does that mean I'm guilty because I belong to the same population? To take it even further, do you blame those victims as well?

                Do you legitimately not understand? Because I'm starting to have doubts on your sincerity

                • Chariotwheel@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  I don't know why you keep insisting that I disavow all Palestinians.

                  That deep into the thread I don't know if you're willfully ignorant just to score some points against someone that isn't me.

                  To spell it out again: I think rape is bad. I think that Palestina should be a state. If that's somehow incompatible to you, you need to check yourself.

    • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      It’s stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death.

      There is another option. Negotiate a viable peace, which they have refused to do repeatedly. Palestine is essentially a defeated state that refuses to acknowledge its loss or make concessions. The only victory condition they are willing to entertain is not viable and their insistence on fighting an unwinnable war, often via guerilla attacks and terrorism, will not end well for them.

      [Hamas's charter,] article 13, "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Gaza's last election was 17 years ago…

        And Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election.

        They won't negotiate with Gaza, which because it was separated from the West Bank by Israel is essentially it's own government. It's pretty classic "divide and conquer".

        And before you say "Israel shouldn't be involved" then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza?

        • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Wikipedia says Palestinian presidential elections were indefinitely postponed by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas due to a Hamas-Fatah schism:

          The elections took place amid a tense atmosphere between Fatah and Hamas over the postponement of more major elections that were also scheduled for 2021. It was also reported that voters were angry with the postponement of the presidential election and the legislative election by President Mahmoud Abbas.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%9322_Palestinian_local_elections


          Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. … And before you say “Israel shouldn’t be involved” then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza?

          Because they are an adjacent hostile terrorist state, dedicated to their destruction, that they want to contain via leverage?

    • eatthecake@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Raping women is standing up for palestinians is it? How exactly have the actions of hamas helped the palestinian people?

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You can just scroll down and read the rest of the comment chain.

        I'll even quote the first for free

        You think every Palestinian is doing that?

        That’s the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that.

        The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace.

        • eatthecake@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          You said hamas awful actions didnt happen in a vacuum and that they are standing up for their people. You are justifying mass rape as a war tactic. There is plenty criticize israel for but justifying the torture of civillians is appalling.