• manxu@piefed.social
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    3 months ago

    I remember arguing for days, in 2024, that the whole “Democrats are bad because Palestine” thing was clearly a psyop by Russian bots trying to mess with the election. I really need to improve my persuasion skills. Like by a lot.

    • bearboiblake [he/him]@pawb.social
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      3 months ago

      Or maybe we should demand politicians who aren’t genocidal? I’m not a Russian bot, I just refuse to follow the same bullshit “vote blue no matter who” harm reduction narrative that just leads to infinitely more harm in the long run.

      • jtrek@startrek.website
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        3 months ago

        The car is already skidding on the ice. Saying “we should have taken the subway” is not useful at that point in time.

        • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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          3 months ago

          We’ll still be skidding in 2028, and 2032, and 2036, and 2040, and so on. Picture yourself in 2044 making this same argument. Now we’re arguing about Hitler (D) who wants to put trans people in prison, and Hitler ® who wants to put trans people in death camps. Both candidates are willing to launch a nuclear weapon in behalf of Israel. The car is already skidding, it’s too late to change things. If you don’t vote for Hitler (D), then you’re letting Hitler ® win.

          Flash back to 2026. “Vote blue no matter who” just means democrats don’t have to appeal to leftists at all. In order to win, they just need to appeal to the right. Let’s force them to appeal to the left instead.

          • jtrek@startrek.website
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            3 months ago

            No. Voting in big elections is not the only action you take. This is a conflict with multiple fronts. You need to organize, talk to people, use every option.

            Just abandoning the electoral front in this conflict is stupid

            • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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              3 months ago

              Voting in big elections is not the only action you take.

              When did I say that it is? Please organize. Please vote in primaries. Do use every option. And also, force the Democratic party to understand that they have to appeal to leftists to get leftist votes, even when a conservative democrat wins a primary.

    • LLMhater1312@piefed.social
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      3 months ago

      Pretty sure Democrats doing nothing to stop the genocide in gaza was a factor to their detriment in the election, bots aside

      • manxu@piefed.social
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        3 months ago

        Even knowing that Trump was going to actively help Bibi? That’s the thing I didn’t understand: sure, the Democrats were not doing much to stop the slaughter, but from the previous Trump administration we knew Trump was going to actively help.

            • njm1314@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              Yeah buddy I wasn’t saying not actively working against it was helping it. I meant literally helping it. That Administration was actively arming the Israelis and aiding in the genocide. Super weird that you didn’t know that.

              • Natanael@slrpnk.net
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                3 months ago

                Ok then tell me this, did Bibi like Biden? Did he want Biden to win? Did he think Biden let him do all he wanted? What did Biden say about Bibi in return?

                Then you can look at things like Republicans voting to force continued sales of weapons

                https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/us/politics/house-bill-reverse-israel-arms-pause.html

                Meanwhile; https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5429072-sanders-resolution-fails-israel-military/

                Tell me what Biden could’ve done that wouldn’t amount to starting a war?

                You’re such a ghoul, actively helping people like Musk and Miller and ensuring Trump won’t put up obstacles for Israel murdering people in Lebanon and Iran. Because it’s more important to you that people get martyred against their will for your personal ideological purity. You knew the genocide would get worse if Trump won and you decided that would be better

                • Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
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                  3 months ago

                  Its illegal to send weapons or money to a country that is committing genocide. Biden could have simply said he cannot legally support Israel in any way and then just not. Instead Biden chose to lie for Israel aboiut 40 beheaded babies and provide unlimited diplomatic support, going so far as to bomb Yemen for resisting.

                  Democratic leadership knew this would decrease turnout, they prioritized unlimited support for Israel over winning the election.

                  • Natanael@slrpnk.net
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                    3 months ago

                    Ok then if you’re right why was Netanyahu mad at Biden? Why did he want Trump to win? Because there’s no such thing as unlimited support and then wanting to remove the person you’re getting unlimited support from

                • kreskin@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  Pretty trivially easy question. Biden could have done a lot of things – vetoed funding and stopped running interference for Israel in the UN. And he could have called it a genocide and illegal on the world stage. Biden refused to call it a genocide. He could have called for an international force to stop the killing. He also flew recon missions for the Israelis with US drones over Gaza didnt he.

                  And “starting a war”? with who, Israel? Are you stupid? That war would last 5 minutes. Biden took massive amounts of money from AIPAC his entire career, and called himself a zionist all the time. Your pretending he had no choice and was simply a victim of circumstance is pure lies. He was massively bribed. A corrupt peice of shit genocide supporter. He would absolutely lose his case and be imprisoned if the US had done the right thing and signed onto the ICC. He belongs in an orange jumpsuit, sharing a cell with trump.

                  • Zexks@lemmy.world
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                    3 months ago

                    A war with iran. Because trump won we have now killed dozens/hundreds of iranians. People that would not have died if harris had won. So again what would biden/harris have done that would have amounted to starting a war. Are you stupid…

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          sure, the Democrats were not doing much to stop the slaughter

          They were selling weapons to enable the genocide you’re downplaying by refusing to call it a genocide.

          • r1veRRR@feddit.org
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            3 months ago

            Answer the fucking core of their point, instead going on random tangents. How the fuck is Trump better for the palestinians you supposedly care about than the Democrats? How did NOT having a spineless democrat in office help them? What did all you moral purists do in those 4-ish hours once every 4 years where you didn’t vote? How many walmarts have been fire bombed?

        • AppleTea@lemmy.zip
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          3 months ago

          Ok, but you see how massively demoralizing this conversation is, right?

          Making logical points weighing up two distinct yet similar stances on genocide is only going to suppress voter turnout.

          • manxu@piefed.social
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            3 months ago

            Yes, I can see that it would be demoralizing, and it was demoralizing. The Schumer/Biden wing of the Democrats deserves to be cast into the bonfire of the vanities, they are completely useless. And while this might sound sarcastic, I truly believe they have ended their usefulness, if they ever had much.

            But we are talking about human beings and their lives. It may not make much of a philosophical difference to compare different stances on this senseless slaughter, but it makes eminently practical sense to save the lives you can. An American Presidential election was not going to produce much of a genocide-stopping president in 2024, and I hope 2028 does better, but there were distinct differences in approach and stance and collaboration with Bibi.

            Case in point, look up “Gaza floating pier,” vs. “Trump Gaza resort.” it’s not about philosophical differences when you are starving.

            • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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              3 months ago

              If genocide is bipartisan, then the less bad choice is whatever collapses the US the fastest. You wouldn’t try to choose the leader of Nazi Germany based on who’s going to run the holocaust most effectively

              Case in point, look up “Gaza floating pier,” vs. “Trump Gaza resort.” it’s not about philosophical differences when you are starving.

              BlueMAGA is a parody of itself