Im not going to disagree with you, but i have this nagging suspicion that most people who think they are “night owls” are really just shining a phone light in their face every night and confusing their sleep cycle.
Did they? I’ll have to look. I know reputable sources were talking about blue light specifically as of a few years ago, but science always changes so it’s possible. I’d love a link if you’ve got it, but don’t feel obligated.
i remember reading a study a couple of years ago but i wouldnt be able to find it again. in any case i still use blue light filters for the reduced eye strain and light amount at night.
Thank you for replying, because it reminded me to look for actual studies today :) Edit: If you want a TL:DR, I found this article which describes the study I found below in less technical terms. Basically it may not just be blue light that’s bad (supporting what you said), although using blue-light blockers and night modes is still a good idea.
I found this 2023 study that (via a lot of technical detail) basically says it doesn’t matter if the light is blue or yellow. The authors say theirs was a smaller study limited to 16 participants and shorter exposure times by budget constraints, but it supports what you said. If you scroll down to the last paragraph they say exposure to short-wavelength light (blue-to-yellow) should be reduced in the evening, and recommend phones, computers etc. have various kinds of night modes and that they be used.
So the summary seems to be that there’s a study that says blue light IS hard on sleep, but it’s not just blue light - it’s all light with more energy than red/orange light (i.e. the light you’d get naturally at sunset). It’s just one study and a small one, but that may be what you read and it’s a good starting point for further research.
The increase in people who can’t sleep because of cell phone usage at night has increased because of cell phones. This is a well known thing. No one is saying night owls didn’t exist before cellphones.
That may be true, but at least the genes for night owls are present in more people than the genes for early birds.
So it should be expected that, regardless of phone usage, over half of the population will go to bed and wake up ~2-3h later than expected.
If your timezone is closely aligned with the sun, that’d be 22:00-06:00 for early birds and 01:00-09:00 for night owls. But if your timezone isn’t, both of these times would shift around.
For me personally, no matter when I go to bed, whether it’s 22:00 or 03:00, I always wake up precisely 09:30 without any alarm clock. But this also means if I have to wake up earlier, e.g. at 8am, I’ll be very tired and not well rested.
I think you are severely overestimating how many people sleep till 9 or later. There’s no way it’s more than half.
Look at what times are peak traffic or peak public transport. Anyone with kids wakes up early. Most kids do. Anyone who has to be at school by 9 is up earlier.
9am wake ups are for people in their 20s till mid 30s generally. And only if you have a very understanding white collar job. Most blue collar workers and labourers are up much earlier.
I don’t think they were commenting on how many people can sleep late, I think it was a comment on what time people would naturally sleep to barring all other factors but genetics.
I am typing this in Wuhan, listening to birds singing in the middle of the night. Are they owls? No, their sleep patterns have simply adapted to the constant neon lighting all over the place.
Depression and alcohol can also negatively affect sleep patterns.
Combine depression with all night TV binge watching or phone soon browsing for a greaaaat combo.
And definitely a lot of it is just that people have gotten used to it. People think they have insomnia because every time they try to go to bed early they can’t sleep but they’re doing it the wrong way. They should wake up early and go to bed when they start to feel sleepy and work on sleep hygiene (including even a short walk outside). It won’t be fixed in a day.
Im not going to disagree with you, but i have this nagging suspicion that most people who think they are “night owls” are really just shining a phone light in their face every night and confusing their sleep cycle.
For some that’s definitely true. It’s well known that light (especially Edit: blue-to-yellow as per below) can disrupt someone’s circadian rhythm.
Wow you had that source fast… Nicely done
im aware too much light is bad but didnt they disprove the blue light thing?
Did they? I’ll have to look. I know reputable sources were talking about blue light specifically as of a few years ago, but science always changes so it’s possible. I’d love a link if you’ve got it, but don’t feel obligated.
i remember reading a study a couple of years ago but i wouldnt be able to find it again. in any case i still use blue light filters for the reduced eye strain and light amount at night.
Thank you for replying, because it reminded me to look for actual studies today :) Edit: If you want a TL:DR, I found this article which describes the study I found below in less technical terms. Basically it may not just be blue light that’s bad (supporting what you said), although using blue-light blockers and night modes is still a good idea.
I found this 2023 study that (via a lot of technical detail) basically says it doesn’t matter if the light is blue or yellow. The authors say theirs was a smaller study limited to 16 participants and shorter exposure times by budget constraints, but it supports what you said. If you scroll down to the last paragraph they say exposure to short-wavelength light (blue-to-yellow) should be reduced in the evening, and recommend phones, computers etc. have various kinds of night modes and that they be used.
So the summary seems to be that there’s a study that says blue light IS hard on sleep, but it’s not just blue light - it’s all light with more energy than red/orange light (i.e. the light you’d get naturally at sunset). It’s just one study and a small one, but that may be what you read and it’s a good starting point for further research.
thats exactly the one i read. thanks for sharing your research.
Thanks for sharing yours too! Science is always about getting it more and more right.
Night owls have been a thing since long before cell phones existed
The increase in people who can’t sleep because of cell phone usage at night has increased because of cell phones. This is a well known thing. No one is saying night owls didn’t exist before cellphones.
Or night owls just fuck a lot more than early birds, so we’re taking over the population
Conspiracy! You all will turn into vampires later…I saw it in that true blood documentary.
That may be true, but at least the genes for night owls are present in more people than the genes for early birds.
So it should be expected that, regardless of phone usage, over half of the population will go to bed and wake up ~2-3h later than expected.
If your timezone is closely aligned with the sun, that’d be 22:00-06:00 for early birds and 01:00-09:00 for night owls. But if your timezone isn’t, both of these times would shift around.
For me personally, no matter when I go to bed, whether it’s 22:00 or 03:00, I always wake up precisely 09:30 without any alarm clock. But this also means if I have to wake up earlier, e.g. at 8am, I’ll be very tired and not well rested.
I think you are severely overestimating how many people sleep till 9 or later. There’s no way it’s more than half.
Look at what times are peak traffic or peak public transport. Anyone with kids wakes up early. Most kids do. Anyone who has to be at school by 9 is up earlier.
9am wake ups are for people in their 20s till mid 30s generally. And only if you have a very understanding white collar job. Most blue collar workers and labourers are up much earlier.
I don’t think they were commenting on how many people can sleep late, I think it was a comment on what time people would naturally sleep to barring all other factors but genetics.
I am typing this in Wuhan, listening to birds singing in the middle of the night. Are they owls? No, their sleep patterns have simply adapted to the constant neon lighting all over the place.
Depression and alcohol can also negatively affect sleep patterns.
Combine depression with all night TV binge watching or phone soon browsing for a greaaaat combo.
One can break cycles, though.
What’s life like in Wuhan? Haven’t seen any commenters from China on here yet
It also changed with age for me. And I feel like I also influenced it by getting to bed on time almost everyday, and putting away the phone.
So I understand that it might be very difficult, it was the same for me, and I managed to change it.
Still feel tired if I have to wake up before 7 am, no matter how much I slept, but that’s mostly avoidable.
You presented with the same visible symptoms, but we don’t know if your illness had the same amount of resistance to treatment
And definitely a lot of it is just that people have gotten used to it. People think they have insomnia because every time they try to go to bed early they can’t sleep but they’re doing it the wrong way. They should wake up early and go to bed when they start to feel sleepy and work on sleep hygiene (including even a short walk outside). It won’t be fixed in a day.