Looks like many haven’t read the article before commenting. While both candidates have a proposal about the same topic, the methodology of implementing this seems to differ greatly.
The reaction in the comments appears to reflect more of the potential outcome of the Trump plan, though the Trump plan seems to mainly be some cobbled together bits of some other Republican proposals.
From the article, the Harris plan goes along with a minimum wage increase and an income cap so higher wage workers can’t collect tax free “tips” in lieu of taxable income.
I also looked up some implications of elimination of taxed tips and found this article that goes into some numbers and shows how raising the standard deduction to make more workers, not just tipped workers, exempt from income tax and benefit many more people. I thought that was interesting and provided more seemingly useful info than either candidates’ campaign promises.
The numbers didn’t really look in line for today’s incomes, and from what I can tell from this, tax brackets for anything but the highest earners haven’t changed other than an inflation adjustment since the 80s.
I’ll guess if you’re non-US, you’re also getting things for your taxes such as healthcare and other services. For us, it’s essentially a la carte pricing, so for many of these people in the lower tax brackets, healthcare is much more than taxes.
The bottom 50% of earners pay about $700/yr in federal tax. State and local taxes, property tax, school tax, and sales tax on top of that. “Average” income tax is $15,000, only due to wealth disparity. The bottom 50% pay less than 2.5% of all income tax.
Average healthcare cost is around $14,000/yr, so even for solidly middle-class people, healthcare costs are the same or higher than paid taxes, so that is probably much closer to, if not more than you may be paying.
Paying tax is a civic responsibility. The real pain comes from not feeling like you get what you pay for. I’ve no issue with coughing up some cash for safe roads and food inspectors, but when we have bridges collapsing and healthcare isn’t considered a human right, it makes for some discontentment.
Wow, that chart does look crazy high in comparison.
I always think VAT looks wildly expensive as well.
I found 2 more charts and each country looks to have fairly different ways of taxing people, making it hard to see who’s getting the best and worst deals. Especially as the taxes go to different things.
This is just federal income tax and doesn’t count tax contributions towards medicare and social security (which is capped after a certain level, so someone making $1 million a year pays the same toward social security as someone making the cap which is currently around $160k). It also doesn’t count state income taxes.
The us also has a $14,600 standard deduction that effectively adds a 0% bracket and increases the lower thresholds by that amount (people in the higher thresholds would probably itemize, decreasing their effective tax even further).
The IRS does index the tax brackets for inflation.
There is a lot more to it than the table. I think it was OP’s article mentioned that there were bills circulating to eliminate the state income tax on tips as well as just the federal.
I mentioned some of the other taxes in my other replies a bit, but other than paying taxes, I’m not much of an expert. Plus if most people couldn’t be bothered to read the original article, I’m not going to look up a bunch more data they won’t read. 😁
Our taxes could be worse, but they could also be much better. I don’t know if these tip tax plans will do much, as it’s <3% of people making tipped income according to the article if I’m remembering it right from yesterday. Something that would help the bottom 50% of earners seems like it would be worth the effort instead, instead of cementing tip culture as a substitute for fair wages, but that’s just my opinion.
I’ve only ever lived in states that don’t have state taxes, only federal. That said every place I worked when I was younger had people just lying about their tips by claiming they only made tips that came from cards and pocketed all their tips from cash and never reported it. As cash has slowly disappeared more and more I’m sure that is dying off but tips were never a good thing for society. They are “politically correct” bribes. Then when companies realize customers will bribe their workers to be more helpful they got greedy and started taking those bribes. To which we made laws about stealing their bribes, so they paid politicians to make minimum wage separate for commonly bribed positions, effectively making it legal to steal bribes from their workers.
Making a portion of jobs qualify to not be taxable in parts of their income and not others regardless of tax brackets would be unresponsible. We are complicating a system that doesn’t need to be more complicated, and all that does is make more room for loopholes and exploitation (whether it be if the worker or of the taxes that should have been paid).
My experience talking with waitstaff friends mirrors yours.
They all swear they’re getting the better end of the deal because they have good nights, but there’s gotta be dead nights where they make nothing, and I can’t imagine disability or unemployment is good when your wage is $2/hr.
To me it’s passing the cost of labor onto customers in a less than transparent manner, and with wage theft by employers seeming to be a problem with restaurant staff, I don’t know how you can prove stolen cash tips.
It varies, usually the ones I knew would make more money than those working back of house without an issue. Back of house would get paid say $10 an hour and work a 9 hour shift. Front would come in for 6 hours and leave with ~$150. Creating a natural divide between the two.
It’s just a title, it says what the article is about, but it can’t say everything. But when everyone comments based on the title and not the article, we risk creating misinformation.
Trump and Harris can both say we should not tax tips, but if that’s the end of the story from Trump, but it’s part of a multi-pronged approach, that’s what we need to be sharing and commenting on.
Everyone’s points about tipped jobs being exploitative are correct, but that isn’t what the article is about. If we just take it as Harris and Trump both want to do the same thing, that’s a half truth, and that is what many of these comments perpetuate. Both sides or this are not the same, and it does a disservice to us all to treat it as such.
Having a more descriptive title can help, like if it said “Harris presents competing plan for removing tax on tips,” but it is somewhat redundant as they wrote the entire rest of the article about it. I feel this is why we include the article with the post, and not just the title, no? 😉
I feel I’m sounding a bit harsh, which isn’t my intent, but it irks me when I can go through a comment section and see just about everyone has missed the point.
Looks like many haven’t read the article before commenting. While both candidates have a proposal about the same topic, the methodology of implementing this seems to differ greatly.
The reaction in the comments appears to reflect more of the potential outcome of the Trump plan, though the Trump plan seems to mainly be some cobbled together bits of some other Republican proposals.
From the article, the Harris plan goes along with a minimum wage increase and an income cap so higher wage workers can’t collect tax free “tips” in lieu of taxable income.
I also looked up some implications of elimination of taxed tips and found this article that goes into some numbers and shows how raising the standard deduction to make more workers, not just tipped workers, exempt from income tax and benefit many more people. I thought that was interesting and provided more seemingly useful info than either candidates’ campaign promises.
The solution would be to increase the lowest tax bracket then.
That’s another fine suggestion.
The numbers didn’t really look in line for today’s incomes, and from what I can tell from this, tax brackets for anything but the highest earners haven’t changed other than an inflation adjustment since the 80s.
Wish my wages were taxed at those brackets
I’ll guess if you’re non-US, you’re also getting things for your taxes such as healthcare and other services. For us, it’s essentially a la carte pricing, so for many of these people in the lower tax brackets, healthcare is much more than taxes.
The bottom 50% of earners pay about $700/yr in federal tax. State and local taxes, property tax, school tax, and sales tax on top of that. “Average” income tax is $15,000, only due to wealth disparity. The bottom 50% pay less than 2.5% of all income tax.
Average healthcare cost is around $14,000/yr, so even for solidly middle-class people, healthcare costs are the same or higher than paid taxes, so that is probably much closer to, if not more than you may be paying.
Paying tax is a civic responsibility. The real pain comes from not feeling like you get what you pay for. I’ve no issue with coughing up some cash for safe roads and food inspectors, but when we have bridges collapsing and healthcare isn’t considered a human right, it makes for some discontentment.
Before any taxes are applied, we pay 13,08% for social security. Then taxes are applied according to following brackets:
Wow, that chart does look crazy high in comparison.
I always think VAT looks wildly expensive as well.
I found 2 more charts and each country looks to have fairly different ways of taxing people, making it hard to see who’s getting the best and worst deals. Especially as the taxes go to different things.
Chart article
This is just federal income tax and doesn’t count tax contributions towards medicare and social security (which is capped after a certain level, so someone making $1 million a year pays the same toward social security as someone making the cap which is currently around $160k). It also doesn’t count state income taxes.
The us also has a $14,600 standard deduction that effectively adds a 0% bracket and increases the lower thresholds by that amount (people in the higher thresholds would probably itemize, decreasing their effective tax even further).
The IRS does index the tax brackets for inflation.
Also, that table does not include state taxes.
There is a lot more to it than the table. I think it was OP’s article mentioned that there were bills circulating to eliminate the state income tax on tips as well as just the federal.
I mentioned some of the other taxes in my other replies a bit, but other than paying taxes, I’m not much of an expert. Plus if most people couldn’t be bothered to read the original article, I’m not going to look up a bunch more data they won’t read. 😁
Our taxes could be worse, but they could also be much better. I don’t know if these tip tax plans will do much, as it’s <3% of people making tipped income according to the article if I’m remembering it right from yesterday. Something that would help the bottom 50% of earners seems like it would be worth the effort instead, instead of cementing tip culture as a substitute for fair wages, but that’s just my opinion.
I’ve only ever lived in states that don’t have state taxes, only federal. That said every place I worked when I was younger had people just lying about their tips by claiming they only made tips that came from cards and pocketed all their tips from cash and never reported it. As cash has slowly disappeared more and more I’m sure that is dying off but tips were never a good thing for society. They are “politically correct” bribes. Then when companies realize customers will bribe their workers to be more helpful they got greedy and started taking those bribes. To which we made laws about stealing their bribes, so they paid politicians to make minimum wage separate for commonly bribed positions, effectively making it legal to steal bribes from their workers.
Making a portion of jobs qualify to not be taxable in parts of their income and not others regardless of tax brackets would be unresponsible. We are complicating a system that doesn’t need to be more complicated, and all that does is make more room for loopholes and exploitation (whether it be if the worker or of the taxes that should have been paid).
My experience talking with waitstaff friends mirrors yours.
They all swear they’re getting the better end of the deal because they have good nights, but there’s gotta be dead nights where they make nothing, and I can’t imagine disability or unemployment is good when your wage is $2/hr.
To me it’s passing the cost of labor onto customers in a less than transparent manner, and with wage theft by employers seeming to be a problem with restaurant staff, I don’t know how you can prove stolen cash tips.
It varies, usually the ones I knew would make more money than those working back of house without an issue. Back of house would get paid say $10 an hour and work a 9 hour shift. Front would come in for 6 hours and leave with ~$150. Creating a natural divide between the two.
So the title is misleading?
It’s just a title, it says what the article is about, but it can’t say everything. But when everyone comments based on the title and not the article, we risk creating misinformation.
Trump and Harris can both say we should not tax tips, but if that’s the end of the story from Trump, but it’s part of a multi-pronged approach, that’s what we need to be sharing and commenting on.
Everyone’s points about tipped jobs being exploitative are correct, but that isn’t what the article is about. If we just take it as Harris and Trump both want to do the same thing, that’s a half truth, and that is what many of these comments perpetuate. Both sides or this are not the same, and it does a disservice to us all to treat it as such.
Having a more descriptive title can help, like if it said “Harris presents competing plan for removing tax on tips,” but it is somewhat redundant as they wrote the entire rest of the article about it. I feel this is why we include the article with the post, and not just the title, no? 😉
I feel I’m sounding a bit harsh, which isn’t my intent, but it irks me when I can go through a comment section and see just about everyone has missed the point.
Ok. Got it. Sounds like a misleading title.