Stein pulling out wouldn’t result in more votes for Harris. It would just make more people stay home. I think they’re more worried about greens hitting the 5% national threshold.
Stop assuming these votes are stolen from Harris. She hasn’t earned them.
Say you need a life saving operation. Your choices are: a skilled surgeon who is suspected to have cheated on their spouse, George Clooney from the hit TV show ER, or a mediocre at best veterinarian. This is essentially the state of things. A qualified person, a fictional character, and a person who is tangentially qualified at best.
The country needs a life saving operation. Harris is extremely qualified candidate who at worst carries some of the murky ethical baggage of any career politician. Trump is not only unqualified, but uniquely contraindicated (vindictive, foreign debts, exceedingly old, litany of bonafide legal issues, unrepentant rapist). And Stein is at best a politician shaped object, who is perhaps qualified enough to be a pundit or a podcast host.
For the safety of people of color, for women, for the environment, for the rule of law, for diplomacy, for the economy, there is only one pragmatic choice, and that choice is Harris.
Nothing in Harris’ record shows she’s qualified. She’s done a measurably shit job in every position she’s been in.
She hasn’t earned them.
The binary choice and the risks of failure have been mentioned so many times, that I worry for people who don’t get it.
Both candidates support genocide. A binary choice would be an improvement from what we have now.
You’re right. If they weren’t going to vote for Harris, to me it sounds like they’re perfectly fine with another Trump presidency and the decades of consequences that would follow.
Breaking news: people with an actual commitment to environmentalism recognize Jill Stein for the obvious Russian shill and extreme threat to environmentalism she is. More at 11.
The best thing Stein could do for the environment right now is to quit.
Decomposing is also an option.
Decomposition releases greenhouse gases. Better for her to preserve herself in a peat bog or something.
Fair
They also recognize the current government as an extreme threat to environment
I voted for Jill Stein in 2016 because I assumed Hillary was going to win anyway, and I was in a solidly red state so fuck it, might as well vote 3rd party.
Then Trump won.
Then I learned about Stein’s backwards views on nuclear energy, GMOs and vaccines.
Then she turned out to be a Russian asset.
Then she decided to run again and again, knowing that she’s only acting as a spoiler for the Dems.Boy did I make a mistake in 2016. I wish there was a perfect candidate for everyone to vote for, but unfortunately keeping Trump out of the white house is the best we can do. Harris isn’t my first choice, but I voted for her on behalf of all of the people who will suffer under another Trump presidency.
Yep me exactly too. Though I vote in a solidly blue state, it won’t change much but the dems have gotten better and all 3rd parties have gotten worse in recent years, so I have no problem voting dem this time just to take zero risks.
You mean Russian Asset Jill Stein?
I was talking about intentional spoiler candidate for Trump whom Republicans are scrambling to get on as many ballots as possible Jill Stein, but maybe we’re talking about the same person here.
Po-traitor, Po-traito
The very same
Russia controls ¾ of US candidates. Awesome.
A nation that sent his troops on an invasion without boots and helmets controls ¾ of the candidates of the most powerful and advanced nation in the world that spend 10 times as much money in war and propaganda than everyone else, that has thousand military facilities around the globe, that has the biggest mass surveillance network ever seen in history with satellites capable of snooping at every inch of the planet at any given time.
That’s what you are saying.
Yeah that’s what I am saying. Trump is definitely compromised, for example. And he’s not the only one, look at the Hungarian PM. They would sell their ass if Putin asked so.
https://saganic.blogspot.com/2007/06/us-military-bases-in-italy-there-are.html
This is how many military facilities usa has in italy alone. More than 100. As an italian it seem laughable to me to believe that the former ceo of usa is controlled by russia.
Allora sei il primo italiano MAGA che io abbia mai visto. Comunque non ci sono 100 basi US, le stai mischiando con le basi NATO
You are more MAGA than me, you are defending the US government who’s former ceo is trump.
I see these comments a lot and I’d like to learn more. Do you have any articles on this?
Well, start here at a dinner she attended in Moscow in late 2015:
Years later, after Trump was elected, she claimed it was just perfunctory, with no real interaction with Putin. She also claims she received no payment for being there, although we know Flynn received 45k from Putin for his attendance.
Then there is this from 2016 about Russian efforts to divert Clinton voters to stein. She also received intense press coverage by RT, Russians propaganda TV station, that was not banned in the US at the time.
Here she is refusing to call Putin a war criminal, a stance she suddenly recanted days later.
Here is evidence she is currently working with the GOP.
Thank you for the well cited reply! Scary.
According to the lesser evil logic receiving money from putin is still less evil than being a fascist or being supporting a genocide.
Coordinating directly with Putin, the oligarch dictator of Russia, who is currently engaged in a genocide in Ukraine, to elect Trump, a US presidential candidate that has told Israel it “needs to finish the job,” a person whose son in law has said gaza is “excellent beach front property,” and who hid the number of drone strikes and their casualties caused during his admin, is the lesser evil?
I’d call the above stupid, not its far to disingenuous to be an actual real perspective.
Like it or not that still lesser evil than being a fascist who said israel “needs to finish the job” or being actively fueling a genocide by sending israel fascist government “whatever it needs”.
Lesser evil logic, you vote for the lesser evil.
This is nonsense.
FPTP voting means there are 2 viable options only. If you don’t vote for the “lesser evil,” you are voting for the “greater evil.”
Choosing to not make a choice is still a choice. Voting for “not Harris” is the exact same thing as voting for “yes Trump” in our system.
You’re voting for the greater evil by voting for Jill Stein, which is exactly what her and her partners Putin and Trump want.
Yes the lesser evil logic is non sense.
“Stein was reached for comment where she added: what the fuck do you think I’m running for, to actually be president? Ha! You’re telling me to drop out so I can’t do the thing I’m here to do which is help Trump win. You realize how dumb that is right?”
At press time, Stein remarked: “No, no seriously guys, we’re actually a serious party that has any business running for the highest office in the nation please believe me.”
I would believe them if their party EVER got anyone elected, even to state congress, in even a third of the states.
I said it once, I’ll say it again-
Until ranked choice vote is established and the electoral college is abolished, there are no serious third parties.
The most serious third party imo is the Forward Party, only because they have one platform which is RCV, and they are quietly working in local elections only. They aren’t running any candidates in federal elections, although they had a big win in helping Alaska switch to RCV for their congressional race, which nudged out Sarah Palin.
With the forward party in conjunction with fairvote.org , they are laying the groundwork to create possibly the most revolutionary change to American politics ever.
But in order to do that, we need to have elections. Vote Harris.
FPTP means there will be two viable candidates in each race, it doesn’t mean they’ll always be the same two parties. There are lots of races in deep blue areas that don’t have a viable Republican challengers where the Greens (if they were a real party) could mount a challenge. Sort of like the Justice Democrats, but making the play in an unopposed general election instead of the primary. Then they could caucus (or not I suppose) with the Democrats like the independents do.
I think the challenge this argument has is that it ignores the spoiler effect that is the biggest problem in FPTP, and it assumes party changes have happened because a third party successfully unseated a traditional party in a sort of coup.
First, the spoiler effect is very real. You’ll notice the better a third party does, the worse it is for that whole faction of the electorate. It’s a bit of a paradox but you can see it with the notable 3rd party runs. Teddy Roosevelt got Woodrow Wilson elected. Ross Perot gave the election to Clinton by splitting the right. Ralph Nader solidified Bush as president. The better the third party does, the stronger the spoiler effect. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s just the math.
Next, when there is a party change, such as the fall of the federalists or the whigs, it is because they fell apart due to losing a war or their positions (such as opposing manifest destiny) became moot and they no longer had a purpose. This created a void that was then filled with a new party. This was not because a 3rd party arrived and had a David vs Goliath situation. In this metaphor Goliath was already dead when David showed up.
Some questions to ask: what does it mean to have a politically diverse election? How does FPTP or RCV have impact in a time where we have more tools for social engineering (like social media and surveillance tools)? What assumptions of the Republican and Democratic parties are we making? What assumptions are we making on the electorate that they are composed of?
This whole fucking post is about candidates in deep blue areas running without a viable challenger and you come back to write paragraphs about the spoiler effect? The whole of the post is about places where the spoiler effect does not apply. You didn’t read anything you replied to.
But they brag about five (5) whole Green Party members getting elected to state legislatures since 1985. You know, that’s like one (1) whole member every eight (8) years, which is a lot considering there are only thousands of state legislature positions across the US (some of which have such little competition fucking Buck Cluck could probably get elected to a few dozen of them). So I think your point is moot tbh.
Good. I was a part of the Green Party, I left when I learned they were planning of running a candidate this year, when internally, we were floating around the idea of NOT running a candidate. I am now a member of the Working Families Party.
Good on you, but I’d like to point out that you meant “a part” not “apart”. Apart means separate from.
Thanks for the correction!
This might have helped two months ago. Thanks Europe. Better late than never I guess?
Europeans are confused by America’s constant election cycle.
From a European perspective the race should be in the final quarter since it would have started two weeks ago.
We’re confused as hell how parliamentary systems work too, so fair I guess?
Sort your own fascists out, America. JFC.
How’s that working out in Italy and Bavaria? Good thing Europeans have historically been able to keep fascism in check before it gets out of hand, or I might start to worry.
Said a spawn of the British Empire that needed help to sort out European fascism last time.
Just embarrassing to not view antifascism as a global effort in general tbqh.
Some of us are fucking trying, and wasn’t expecting any help anyway. I am sure Trump taking back over would have no effect on you…
When you’re talking about an economy like the US, it’s never just our own. Unfortunately for the rest of the world.
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Damn, even people in other countries seem to understand what’s going on. I guess they don’t see both sides as the same for some reason. 🤔
I’m sure people in other nations are holding their breath right now. This election has huge consequences world wide.
She’s a Russian asset.
That’s so sad. They think she’s genuine.
I don’t think she really has a choice this close to the election. RFK has tried suing to get off the ballot in a few states and failed.
Jill Stein responded “I will not abondon this race comrades!”
“But I’ve finally gotten David Duke on board!”
So one single poll suggests this when every other poll seems to suggest otherwise (even then, 1% is well within the single poll’s own +/- 2.1% margin of error), and the news outlet reporting this is the zero-standards rag Newsweek. Thank you, FrogPrincess, very cool.
Stein has the potential to give Michigan to Trump, and we should be worried about that.
