Do you think there are no Nazi sympathizers in Germany? Don’t you see AfD on the rise there?
Most of the people seeing this isn’t going to know the context (i.e. this is a protest). If you strip away the context, this is just a blatant public display of the fascist salute, which many there have wanted to do for so long but couldn’t because they feared the consequences. This could very well embolden them.
Like, if you just look at the photo, it even straight out says “heil Tesla”, for crying out loud. If this is a protest, they did a piss poor job of it. At least put a clown makeup on Elon’s face, what are they even doing.
Have a lot of meetings with Germans. The morning after the inauguration, every one of them asked what the hell was wrong with us that we had a Nazi salute in our inauguration. The context is very very well known over there
Yeah, the average German won’t have heard about Nazi space karen throwing the heil. Especially after he was just there defending Nazis. Who would even know about that, just because it’s world wide news and involves something very poignant to the German people?
Don’t you see AfD on the rise there?
The AfD is not only rising because of Nazi sympathy, but also because of protest voters, a literal fuckton of drama around pretty much every other significant party, too many deaths being instrumentalized, and a disfunctional current government.
Latest opinion poll: https://dawum.de/Bundestag/ - so “only” 20% support them.
Most of the people seeing this isn’t going to know the context (i.e. this is a protest). If you strip away the context, this is just a blatant public display of the fascist salute, which many there have wanted to do for so long but couldn’t because they feared the consequences. This could very well embolden them.
Even german news are full of the orange idiot and his millionaire friends doing their escapades, and you seem to imagine most of the german population sitting there applauding him?
“Blatant displays of the fascist salute” are NOT what many here want to do, but what most would like to do without consequences is punching a Nazi straight to their face.
If you haven’t realized, many european governments shifted right because the populism of those parties exploited and used the political tensions and the accumulated anger for the past failures of many left and green hardliners very well.
Germans are not more right or have more Nazis than many other European states, and given the hereditary guilt, less than many.
I get his point, even if he didn’t state it eloquently. There are photography elements here that look kind of cool. Yeah, most people will focus on memories of history and, you know, how Nazis are fucking bad. But the danger is if something like this recruits anyone. Some people fall for anything with a cool font, even if it tarnishes the font for a lot of others. If I see a swastika, I want to see it carved into a Nazi’s forehead. I don’t want to see a stylized swastika with cool lighting effects that might appeal to a small number of idiots.
It helps that Elon’s face looks particularly stupid.
I don’t know that I agree with his argument, but I can see a grain of truth in it.
“But the danger is if something like this recruits anyone”
What if calling out racists actually encourages people to become racist!! Better not mention racism at alll then amarite…
Also let’s just stop arresting people for crimes completely, what if someone hears that this dude murdered his wife and then everyone starts murdering their wife?
/s obviously but this is what you sound like. You sound like a bot trying to discourage this from being seen by appealing to people’s liberalism…
Whats more black and white than a nazi salute. Whats more black and white than a nazi salute proejcted onto a nazi’s factory, in Germany, by a German activist group.
The statue reads: In honor of the dead, and a reminder to the living. I’ve been to Dachau in front of this very statue. It’s a pretty black and white issue. Saying his salute shouldn’t be shown, and that it might backfire is a stupid point that everyone was going to dislike. Giving him a clown face would alter the photo, taking away from the fact the photo is genuine…
I get both your and his point, I personally just disagree, because I do not think that closing your eyes and ignoring it prevents people from being “recruited”.
In my opinion, this attempt and attitude has given the AfD in Germany (and probably several others) the space to grow, paired with a black and white mentality: the general attitude is mostly - either you vote left, or you’re a nazi, end of discussion. There is no longer a political spectrum in discussions, it’s us or them, left or right, normal or nazi, and I think that this is very, very bad. I think that a democracy should represent everyone, since what makes us a free and democratic state is that everyone is part of it, is represented, and has his freedom of thought, speech and beliefs. Making “having thoughts aligning with the right” a taboo only makes it more interesting, especially for younger people, and given that pretty much every Internet community also generates echo chambers (one or many), it makes it more attractive to potentially end up in one, where those people will realize that they can talk openly here, which makes them more susceptible to further radicalization. And to make it clear - violence of any kind is not included in the freedom, neither by the right, nor by the left.
Instead of focusing on how to prevent people from shifting right, which you simply can’t, I think we should focus on how we can prevent some people from shifting right, and some people from shifting further right, which is perfectly achievable by proper education, applying a spectrum of views and leaving space where more people do not feel left out.
Part of a left and democratic mindset is that all people are made and worth equal, tolerance, and an open mind. In the left versus right discussion there are more than just leftists, nazis, and nazi sympathizers. There are people who may be just not smart enough to figure out that they are just caught by polemic, populism and propaganda, or maybe who don’t even know what they are getting into. There are people who are just protest voting. Hell, even the deepest far-right nazi hellhole has or had people who are trying to leave it.
Sure, the actual nazis and hardliners will applaud that Musk picture and see and use it as confirmation and propaganda, and you won’t be able to influence them otherwise with that.
All other groups in between can be influenced though, even though in both directions.
Specifically for Musk - his general public image has shifted very much from a technological and financial genius to a narcissist right hardliner multimillionaire, because of his actions and people publicly exposing and talking about them, and still he has a big cult of supporters who’ll be on his side till the end. And honestly? That’s fine, but I personally am very happy to see the general shift.
Why are you downvoted? I am from Germany and you are totally right. With a lot of people in Germany this will 100 percent backfire. The educated already knew that Elon is a garbage nazi, the others will more so believe how he is such a cool guy and the savior of the planet
Yeah, I‘m from Germany, too and I am very pessimistic regarding a fascist revival. The AfD is constantly gaining votes, while liberal parties adopt many of their policies. It‘s becoming cool to be a fascist
It’s being projected as part of a protest by https://bsky.app/profile/politicalbeauty.bsky.social and https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:37x2qvt3z5iwuyzusvnvlepi
Thx
as a protest??? it’s probably going to have the exact opposite effect…
Unlike america, europe is really not a fan of nazis. So this is a protest.
I’m concerned you don’t know what a protest is. Or possibly think modem Germans like the Nazi salute!? I don’t know…
Let’s see how many will vote for AfD soon. I am from Austria, and we got our own little Kickl, and his FPÖ. And they just got over 28%…
Why would this backfire? You think germans and their gigafactory subsidies are going to like the nazi salute so much it will increase his popularity?
the afd will, they will say it’s okay because musk isn’t a communist (unlike hitler, according to them)
I didn’t realize it was getting subsidies. What for?
For making electric cars instead of diesel ones I suppose
Do you think there are no Nazi sympathizers in Germany? Don’t you see AfD on the rise there?
Most of the people seeing this isn’t going to know the context (i.e. this is a protest). If you strip away the context, this is just a blatant public display of the fascist salute, which many there have wanted to do for so long but couldn’t because they feared the consequences. This could very well embolden them.
Like, if you just look at the photo, it even straight out says “heil Tesla”, for crying out loud. If this is a protest, they did a piss poor job of it. At least put a clown makeup on Elon’s face, what are they even doing.
Edit: some people can’t even read it seems.
People can read. This is just one of the most moronic takes they’ve ever seen.
Have a lot of meetings with Germans. The morning after the inauguration, every one of them asked what the hell was wrong with us that we had a Nazi salute in our inauguration. The context is very very well known over there
You underestimate how much American news dominates the world news. Greetings from Mexico.
Ok there, sources needed. It almost sounds like youre shilling for them. Next youre going to tell me he was just waving!
Let him be, he thinks Germans are as uneducated as Americans
Yeah, the average German won’t have heard about Nazi space karen throwing the heil. Especially after he was just there defending Nazis. Who would even know about that, just because it’s world wide news and involves something very poignant to the German people?
🤡🤡
Even german news are full of the orange idiot and his millionaire friends doing their escapades, and you seem to imagine most of the german population sitting there applauding him? “Blatant displays of the fascist salute” are NOT what many here want to do, but what most would like to do without consequences is punching a Nazi straight to their face.
If you haven’t realized, many european governments shifted right because the populism of those parties exploited and used the political tensions and the accumulated anger for the past failures of many left and green hardliners very well.
Germans are not more right or have more Nazis than many other European states, and given the hereditary guilt, less than many.
I get his point, even if he didn’t state it eloquently. There are photography elements here that look kind of cool. Yeah, most people will focus on memories of history and, you know, how Nazis are fucking bad. But the danger is if something like this recruits anyone. Some people fall for anything with a cool font, even if it tarnishes the font for a lot of others. If I see a swastika, I want to see it carved into a Nazi’s forehead. I don’t want to see a stylized swastika with cool lighting effects that might appeal to a small number of idiots.
It helps that Elon’s face looks particularly stupid.
I don’t know that I agree with his argument, but I can see a grain of truth in it.
“But the danger is if something like this recruits anyone”
What if calling out racists actually encourages people to become racist!! Better not mention racism at alll then amarite…
Also let’s just stop arresting people for crimes completely, what if someone hears that this dude murdered his wife and then everyone starts murdering their wife?
/s obviously but this is what you sound like. You sound like a bot trying to discourage this from being seen by appealing to people’s liberalism…
I think it’s fine. I’m just tired of every issue being black and white and the need to shit on everyone who doesn’t see everything exactly your way.
He has a point. I don’t think it outweighs the greater point.
Whats more black and white than a nazi salute. Whats more black and white than a nazi salute proejcted onto a nazi’s factory, in Germany, by a German activist group.
The statue reads: In honor of the dead, and a reminder to the living. I’ve been to Dachau in front of this very statue. It’s a pretty black and white issue. Saying his salute shouldn’t be shown, and that it might backfire is a stupid point that everyone was going to dislike. Giving him a clown face would alter the photo, taking away from the fact the photo is genuine…
I get both your and his point, I personally just disagree, because I do not think that closing your eyes and ignoring it prevents people from being “recruited”.
In my opinion, this attempt and attitude has given the AfD in Germany (and probably several others) the space to grow, paired with a black and white mentality: the general attitude is mostly - either you vote left, or you’re a nazi, end of discussion. There is no longer a political spectrum in discussions, it’s us or them, left or right, normal or nazi, and I think that this is very, very bad. I think that a democracy should represent everyone, since what makes us a free and democratic state is that everyone is part of it, is represented, and has his freedom of thought, speech and beliefs. Making “having thoughts aligning with the right” a taboo only makes it more interesting, especially for younger people, and given that pretty much every Internet community also generates echo chambers (one or many), it makes it more attractive to potentially end up in one, where those people will realize that they can talk openly here, which makes them more susceptible to further radicalization. And to make it clear - violence of any kind is not included in the freedom, neither by the right, nor by the left.
Instead of focusing on how to prevent people from shifting right, which you simply can’t, I think we should focus on how we can prevent some people from shifting right, and some people from shifting further right, which is perfectly achievable by proper education, applying a spectrum of views and leaving space where more people do not feel left out.
Part of a left and democratic mindset is that all people are made and worth equal, tolerance, and an open mind. In the left versus right discussion there are more than just leftists, nazis, and nazi sympathizers. There are people who may be just not smart enough to figure out that they are just caught by polemic, populism and propaganda, or maybe who don’t even know what they are getting into. There are people who are just protest voting. Hell, even the deepest far-right nazi hellhole has or had people who are trying to leave it.
Sure, the actual nazis and hardliners will applaud that Musk picture and see and use it as confirmation and propaganda, and you won’t be able to influence them otherwise with that. All other groups in between can be influenced though, even though in both directions.
Specifically for Musk - his general public image has shifted very much from a technological and financial genius to a narcissist right hardliner multimillionaire, because of his actions and people publicly exposing and talking about them, and still he has a big cult of supporters who’ll be on his side till the end. And honestly? That’s fine, but I personally am very happy to see the general shift.
Some people just slept in the day they were handing out common sense.
I envy you the beauty sleep.
Why are you downvoted? I am from Germany and you are totally right. With a lot of people in Germany this will 100 percent backfire. The educated already knew that Elon is a garbage nazi, the others will more so believe how he is such a cool guy and the savior of the planet
Yeah, I‘m from Germany, too and I am very pessimistic regarding a fascist revival. The AfD is constantly gaining votes, while liberal parties adopt many of their policies. It‘s becoming cool to be a fascist
What, he’s going to be even more of a Nazi?