When the ball drops in Times Square, I’m going to yell “Steamboat Willie’s in the public domain (in the U.S. at least)” instead of “Happy New Year.”
Yes Disney is using clips from Steamboat Willie at the beginning of all movies and such to try to establish a case for trademark protections (again at least in the U.S.), but it’s still a bit of a victory.
They use a different version of it though, while based on the original they don’t only use it. You can’t claim only part of a intellectual work. That’s why Winnie the pooh in blood and honey is allowed, because its different from the Disney verison
I’m not sure I fully understand your statement here.
(For purpuoses of this conversation, I’ll be limiting my comments to U.S. law. I can’t say I’m any expert on that, even, but as little as I know about U.S. law, I know far less about any other country’s law. IANAL. Not legal advice.)
I’m referring to this intro sequence that they’ve started adding at the beginning of the significant majority of Disney movies and TV shows. (I don’t think they add it to Marvel or Star Wars things, for instance. Only to more explicitly Disney-branded ones.) It’s probably restored, but it’s the clip from the original Steamboat Willie short.
When you say “you can’t claim only part of an intellectual work” I assume you’re referring to copyright. But what I’m saying is that Disney has finally accepted that they can’t prevent copyright protections on the original Steamboat Willie short from expiring on January 1st 2024 (I don’t think there’s any likelihood of them pulling out a last-minute surprise before then) and are changing their approach. They’re trying to establish a case that they’re using Steamboat Willie (or that clip, at least) as a trademark. (Trademark law and copyright law are different. The rules are different.) I don’t think there’s any reason to suspect that a part/clip of the original Steamboat Willie short couldn’t be used as a trademark.
If someone made/released a film featuring Steamboat-Willie art of the Steamboat-Willie Mickey Mouse on January 2nd 2024, that would be fine from a copyright perspective. (So long as they didn’t do something else that infringed on copyright somewhere.) But it looks like Disney has specifically taken steps to ensure they have an option to come after such a person on trademark grounds.
Now (oh blast, I said I wasn’t going to talk about non-U.S. law, didn’t I? I guess I lied), my understanding about Blood and Honey is that a) it was made in Great Britain and b) the copyright in Great Britain technically hadn’t expired when Blood and Honey was released. Basically, Blood and Honey was (technically) a pirate film. It wasn’t (technically) allowed. (Any more so than would be an unlicensed romcom starring Darth Vader and Jar Jar Binks would be in the U.S. – both characters from works that are fully covered by copyright.) In fact the director of Blood and Honey has said he’s shocked he hasn’t been sued yet and that if Disney did sue, they’d probably have a case.
Now, theoretically, if someone had made a movie in the U.S. with Winnie the Pooh as a character after January 1st 2022, that wouldn’t have infringed any copyright so long as they used only art styles and story elements and such from what Winnie The Pooh works had entered the public domain. Mostly just the original Milne book.
There was a court case where someone made an unlicensed Sherlock Holmes book while some of the original Sherlock books were still in copyright but others had passed out of copyright protections and the courts basically said that you can use any element of Sherlock from the public domain books, but not any elements (such as his dog or his bipolar (which I’m guessing they called “manic depression”) diagnosis) that were from works still covered by copyright. (And it sounds like you understand that last bit. Just wanted to add clarification for other folks that might see this thread.)
So you basically just can’t use the character in the exact same way? How far does that go though? What if I made a Winnie the Pooh show that’s exactly the same but instead of Christopher Robbins it’s Kristoffer Robkins?
How close does it have to be? Is any shirt not allowed? Would a red tank top be OK? Or maybe put him in a maroon shirt? What if he wears a red shirt with a white collar? Feels like splitting hairs, but there IS a line somewhere.
This is Disney we talk about so getting sued is probably expected, they will explain in court how your character ripped of theirs, you defend. Court decides.
If you can point to a non Disney older source where these same details are present you have a likely win.
If there is a Christopher Robbins in the original you can use the name but if there is not it then having roughly the same letters or sound will likely be a loss.
Of course this more assumed law theory of not a layer. Some rich dudes can just trademark the name of fruit, a basic word or even a single letter and we just let them.
Thinking of “fake Winnie Poohs”, I was gaslit by my parents into thinking that the Soviet version of Winnie the Pooh I grew up watching was the OG and that the yellow bear in a red shirt was derivative of it. I couldn’t believe it when I found out that the Soviet version was the “fake” lol
When the ball drops in Times Square, I’m going to yell “Steamboat Willie’s in the public domain (in the U.S. at least)” instead of “Happy New Year.”
Yes Disney is using clips from Steamboat Willie at the beginning of all movies and such to try to establish a case for trademark protections (again at least in the U.S.), but it’s still a bit of a victory.
They use a different version of it though, while based on the original they don’t only use it. You can’t claim only part of a intellectual work. That’s why Winnie the pooh in blood and honey is allowed, because its different from the Disney verison
I’m not sure I fully understand your statement here.
(For purpuoses of this conversation, I’ll be limiting my comments to U.S. law. I can’t say I’m any expert on that, even, but as little as I know about U.S. law, I know far less about any other country’s law. IANAL. Not legal advice.)
I’m referring to this intro sequence that they’ve started adding at the beginning of the significant majority of Disney movies and TV shows. (I don’t think they add it to Marvel or Star Wars things, for instance. Only to more explicitly Disney-branded ones.) It’s probably restored, but it’s the clip from the original Steamboat Willie short.
When you say “you can’t claim only part of an intellectual work” I assume you’re referring to copyright. But what I’m saying is that Disney has finally accepted that they can’t prevent copyright protections on the original Steamboat Willie short from expiring on January 1st 2024 (I don’t think there’s any likelihood of them pulling out a last-minute surprise before then) and are changing their approach. They’re trying to establish a case that they’re using Steamboat Willie (or that clip, at least) as a trademark. (Trademark law and copyright law are different. The rules are different.) I don’t think there’s any reason to suspect that a part/clip of the original Steamboat Willie short couldn’t be used as a trademark.
If someone made/released a film featuring Steamboat-Willie art of the Steamboat-Willie Mickey Mouse on January 2nd 2024, that would be fine from a copyright perspective. (So long as they didn’t do something else that infringed on copyright somewhere.) But it looks like Disney has specifically taken steps to ensure they have an option to come after such a person on trademark grounds.
Now (oh blast, I said I wasn’t going to talk about non-U.S. law, didn’t I? I guess I lied), my understanding about Blood and Honey is that a) it was made in Great Britain and b) the copyright in Great Britain technically hadn’t expired when Blood and Honey was released. Basically, Blood and Honey was (technically) a pirate film. It wasn’t (technically) allowed. (Any more so than would be an unlicensed romcom starring Darth Vader and Jar Jar Binks would be in the U.S. – both characters from works that are fully covered by copyright.) In fact the director of Blood and Honey has said he’s shocked he hasn’t been sued yet and that if Disney did sue, they’d probably have a case.
Now, theoretically, if someone had made a movie in the U.S. with Winnie the Pooh as a character after January 1st 2022, that wouldn’t have infringed any copyright so long as they used only art styles and story elements and such from what Winnie The Pooh works had entered the public domain. Mostly just the original Milne book.
There was a court case where someone made an unlicensed Sherlock Holmes book while some of the original Sherlock books were still in copyright but others had passed out of copyright protections and the courts basically said that you can use any element of Sherlock from the public domain books, but not any elements (such as his dog or his bipolar (which I’m guessing they called “manic depression”) diagnosis) that were from works still covered by copyright. (And it sounds like you understand that last bit. Just wanted to add clarification for other folks that might see this thread.)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
this intro sequence
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So you basically just can’t use the character in the exact same way? How far does that go though? What if I made a Winnie the Pooh show that’s exactly the same but instead of Christopher Robbins it’s Kristoffer Robkins?
I recall the red shirt is one of the key things that identifies it as Disney’s version, so gotta keep Pooh naked
That’s what -I- said, but the judge wasn’t having it!
How close does it have to be? Is any shirt not allowed? Would a red tank top be OK? Or maybe put him in a maroon shirt? What if he wears a red shirt with a white collar? Feels like splitting hairs, but there IS a line somewhere.
That’s up to courts to decide, which would be heavily in Disney’s favor. So make him obviously different or you’re probably gonna lose.
This is Disney we talk about so getting sued is probably expected, they will explain in court how your character ripped of theirs, you defend. Court decides.
If you can point to a non Disney older source where these same details are present you have a likely win.
If there is a Christopher Robbins in the original you can use the name but if there is not it then having roughly the same letters or sound will likely be a loss.
Of course this more assumed law theory of not a layer. Some rich dudes can just trademark the name of fruit, a basic word or even a single letter and we just let them.
Thinking of “fake Winnie Poohs”, I was gaslit by my parents into thinking that the Soviet version of Winnie the Pooh I grew up watching was the OG and that the yellow bear in a red shirt was derivative of it. I couldn’t believe it when I found out that the Soviet version was the “fake” lol