Yeah, and more importantly, Biden needs to learn the public component of diplomacy.
I read his interview in Time, and it’s weird, because it at least gave me some aspect into what he’s thinking.
He’s old as fuck. He has learned decades of procedures and standard practice in diplomacy, and he does NOT understand that a lot of it happens in the open now. Biden thinks he’s playing chess with all the diplomatic messages he sends along backchannels, and he has no idea that this is just an arm wrestling match now. People judge you by what you say and do transparently.
Biden legit thinks he and Bibi are like cousins who grew up together who are having a tough fight, and Bibi is all fucking politics. He’d slit any throat he has to get what he wants, and he will bury Biden in a heartbeat.
Biden should go to Israel, and in a public address announce that the country is turning a corner: it will be safer than ever, and America is going to assist with a long term peace process, which they won’t lead but will provide security guarantees for. And don’t tell Bibi any of this in advance. And when Bibi reacts, say that Bibi has lost his trust and that of the elected public, and they need to hold new elections before getting any new weapons. Get some 'nads, man!
I wouldn’t mind a complete cut-off in weapons, but I also wouldn’t mind if they continue to supply rocket defenses or something if its part of a pressure campaign to send Netanyahu packing. I want Israeli prosecutors and the Hague to argue over who gets to lock his ass up first.
This isn’t just Netanyahu or his administration, this is most non-arab Israelis. Every time you translate an Israeli twitter post or media, it’s like you found a lost page from Mein Kampf
That is very true. Joey Ayoub of The Fire These Times coined a phrase months ago for describing the mainstreaming of genocidal ideation among the public, which I keep returning to: “The Smotrich-ization of the Israeli public”. It’s real, and it’s terrifying.
Still, my impression is that Israelis are in a weird, weird, weird place:
They are largely supportive of the war, but most want a ceasefire deal that would bring home the hostages.
They are largely furious at Netanyahu, though his support has recently started to go back up.
There has been enormous pro-democracy anti-government protests before the war, then there were demonstrations demanding negotiations for a hostage release that were supposed to be explicitly distinct from anti-government demonstrators, and there are also pro-ceasefire, pro-hostage demonstrations that are explicitly NOT distinct from the pro-democracy anti-government demonstrations.
Most Israelis don’t believe the war has “gone too far”, but also many Israelis feel that the war has been mishandled (largely due to the cost on Israeli troops, the economy, and international standing).
There is support for the IDF, but also fury and blame at the IDF for failing so catastrophically during Oct. 7.
There is also widespread anger at the far right for insisting on exempting the ultraorthodox from conscription, while troop shortages force middle-age reservists back into service, but there’s no clear indication that anyone has any leverage to impose on the far and ULTRA FAR right, who have been essentially governing Israel with smug impunity for months now.
And, overall, Israelis seem to like Biden a lot.
I apologize that i don’t have sources for each of these, these are just a collection of insights I recall reading in the last few months.
Ultimately, I think they’re largely out of answers AND being herded aggressively by a well-tuned state propaganda machine, which means that I think their attitudes are in flux. I think they could be led in many directions, and many futures are possible. Right now though, the most successful shepherds are Smotrich and Ben-Givir.
Lastly, there are a few very small Palestinian-Jewish unity groups. These may look irrelevant considering their numbers are so few, but when people ask where we could find leaders capable of negotiating peace (considering most of the Palestinian ones have been killed to prevent any peace process), I think this would be where we’d find them. Despite their numbers, they terrify the far right. They face extreme threats of violence, and I think that reaction belies the threat they pose to Jewish Supremacy.
Damn, it’s a shame that you - who are clearly so much smarter and more knowledgeable than everyone involved - aren’t running things. Surely no armchair general would ever second guess your approach to handling complex international diplomacy.
I’m glad at least someone has it all figured out, if only Biden would reach out to you personally.
I think we have an obligation to provide Iron Dome defensive munitions as long as there is threat of attack on Israel. Despite common opinion, there are plenty of innocent Israelis that are not behind Netanyahu or Zionism that deserve to live without being bombed, just like Palestinians.
Edit: Those of you that paint all Israelis with one brush are no better than Netanyahu labeling all Palestinians as Hamas. Just sayin.
That’s complicated. Would you have said we needed to continue supporting Apartheid South Africa’s military because there were innocent Boers?
When the Israeli national project is ended, then sure we’ll have a responsibility to ensure Palestine respects the rights of all people living in its territory.
Ask yourself. Were you an American citizen when when Trump enabled the sexual abuse of tens of thousands of immigrant children, or currently while Biden supports the Israeli genocide? Has your nation’s government ever acted in hostility against your interests? Are you complicit? Do you deserve protection from bombings?
No, but also kinda? It’s complicated. If someone had the power to help those immigrant children escape, it would be silly to pretend they must endure the continuing injustice for fear they might hurt an “innocent” escaping the concentration camp.
What power do Israelis have in uninstalling Netanyahu? They’re protesting in the tens of thousands to remove him. It’s doing nothing. He was elected prior to Oct. 7 and the subsequent genocidal response. My point is, the actions of a government do not represent the entirety of its people.
I mean, distanced emotionally? Should we be judged and judgement meted out differently than we and our dubious allies judged and delivered judgement? I prefer peace, but we are a warmongering nation. I don’t want it to happen, but where I’m from, the saying goes, “if you keep picking, you’ll eventually get what you’re picking for.”
I completely agree that the US should defend Palestinians, as well as assist in their reconstruction needs. I was talking about amending munitions agreements. In that respect, I think the US should exclusively provide Iron Dome defensive munitions to Israel. They deserve no support in attacking other nations.
Looking back at history, it would lead to more propaganda and more support for going to war.
A population getting attacked only leads to that population wanting to an us vs them mentality and emotional knee-jerk reactions over rational responses.
Not another weapon. Cut off funding.
Yeah, and more importantly, Biden needs to learn the public component of diplomacy.
I read his interview in Time, and it’s weird, because it at least gave me some aspect into what he’s thinking.
He’s old as fuck. He has learned decades of procedures and standard practice in diplomacy, and he does NOT understand that a lot of it happens in the open now. Biden thinks he’s playing chess with all the diplomatic messages he sends along backchannels, and he has no idea that this is just an arm wrestling match now. People judge you by what you say and do transparently.
Biden legit thinks he and Bibi are like cousins who grew up together who are having a tough fight, and Bibi is all fucking politics. He’d slit any throat he has to get what he wants, and he will bury Biden in a heartbeat.
Biden should go to Israel, and in a public address announce that the country is turning a corner: it will be safer than ever, and America is going to assist with a long term peace process, which they won’t lead but will provide security guarantees for. And don’t tell Bibi any of this in advance. And when Bibi reacts, say that Bibi has lost his trust and that of the elected public, and they need to hold new elections before getting any new weapons. Get some 'nads, man!
I wouldn’t mind a complete cut-off in weapons, but I also wouldn’t mind if they continue to supply rocket defenses or something if its part of a pressure campaign to send Netanyahu packing. I want Israeli prosecutors and the Hague to argue over who gets to lock his ass up first.
4% of Jewish Israelis feel the IDF has gone too far
This isn’t just Netanyahu or his administration, this is most non-arab Israelis. Every time you translate an Israeli twitter post or media, it’s like you found a lost page from Mein Kampf
That is very true. Joey Ayoub of The Fire These Times coined a phrase months ago for describing the mainstreaming of genocidal ideation among the public, which I keep returning to: “The Smotrich-ization of the Israeli public”. It’s real, and it’s terrifying.
Still, my impression is that Israelis are in a weird, weird, weird place:
I apologize that i don’t have sources for each of these, these are just a collection of insights I recall reading in the last few months.
Ultimately, I think they’re largely out of answers AND being herded aggressively by a well-tuned state propaganda machine, which means that I think their attitudes are in flux. I think they could be led in many directions, and many futures are possible. Right now though, the most successful shepherds are Smotrich and Ben-Givir.
Lastly, there are a few very small Palestinian-Jewish unity groups. These may look irrelevant considering their numbers are so few, but when people ask where we could find leaders capable of negotiating peace (considering most of the Palestinian ones have been killed to prevent any peace process), I think this would be where we’d find them. Despite their numbers, they terrify the far right. They face extreme threats of violence, and I think that reaction belies the threat they pose to Jewish Supremacy.
Damn, it’s a shame that you - who are clearly so much smarter and more knowledgeable than everyone involved - aren’t running things. Surely no armchair general would ever second guess your approach to handling complex international diplomacy.
I’m glad at least someone has it all figured out, if only Biden would reach out to you personally.
I think we have an obligation to provide Iron Dome defensive munitions as long as there is threat of attack on Israel. Despite common opinion, there are plenty of innocent Israelis that are not behind Netanyahu or Zionism that deserve to live without being bombed, just like Palestinians.
Edit: Those of you that paint all Israelis with one brush are no better than Netanyahu labeling all Palestinians as Hamas. Just sayin.
That’s complicated. Would you have said we needed to continue supporting Apartheid South Africa’s military because there were innocent Boers?
When the Israeli national project is ended, then sure we’ll have a responsibility to ensure Palestine respects the rights of all people living in its territory.
Ask yourself. Were you an American citizen when when Trump enabled the sexual abuse of tens of thousands of immigrant children, or currently while Biden supports the Israeli genocide? Has your nation’s government ever acted in hostility against your interests? Are you complicit? Do you deserve protection from bombings?
No, but also kinda? It’s complicated. If someone had the power to help those immigrant children escape, it would be silly to pretend they must endure the continuing injustice for fear they might hurt an “innocent” escaping the concentration camp.
What power do Israelis have in uninstalling Netanyahu? They’re protesting in the tens of thousands to remove him. It’s doing nothing. He was elected prior to Oct. 7 and the subsequent genocidal response. My point is, the actions of a government do not represent the entirety of its people.
Netanyahu has a favorability of 32% in Israel.
Trump is currently polling at 42% in the US.
I mean, distanced emotionally? Should we be judged and judgement meted out differently than we and our dubious allies judged and delivered judgement? I prefer peace, but we are a warmongering nation. I don’t want it to happen, but where I’m from, the saying goes, “if you keep picking, you’ll eventually get what you’re picking for.”
Can’t help noticing that you make no mention of providing similar defensive capabilities to Palestine. Kind of undercuts your argument.
I completely agree that the US should defend Palestinians, as well as assist in their reconstruction needs. I was talking about amending munitions agreements. In that respect, I think the US should exclusively provide Iron Dome defensive munitions to Israel. They deserve no support in attacking other nations.
Would Israelis be so in favour of war if bombs were landing on them too?
It doesn’t matter if you look to the left or the right. There’s always a sickness that allows people to justify killing. It’s loathsome.
Looking back at history, it would lead to more propaganda and more support for going to war.
A population getting attacked only leads to that population wanting to an us vs them mentality and emotional knee-jerk reactions over rational responses.