Saw a video about this on Mastodon. It looks like they projected a whole video presentation that outlines a bunch of the Nazi shit Musk has done, not just the image of his salute.
Yep. Musk is a racist anti-Semite. Not surprised he’s so well practiced on the nazi salute
All I see in this thread is a bunch of sore losers focusing on one thing to justify their hate and bias. Must suck to always be miserable.
I saw a bunch of sore losers in 2020. Doubt you had this much smoke back then.
A lot of us are shocked we even reached this point as a society, we didn’t even make it 100 years. Floored, shocked, flabbergasted, i could go on, many people have different reactions. The general consensus (at minimal) is that this wasn’t appropriate. It also not one thing, calling it as such minimizes societal dynamics of the world as a whole. People are definitely sending this instance around like crazy, but it encompass what many people have warned about for years.
I dislike being correct, I envy some people, I want to close my eyes, I want to just do the 9-5 grind.
Because politics is a game where there are necessarily winners and losers, apparently. You’re petty and gross.
I’m trans.
Focusing on one thing, such as my gender, is what Nazis like Musk do.
Musk giving a Nazi salute, combined with his rhetoric and pro-Nazi censorship on X, isn’t one thing. It’s many things that all demonstrate that yes, Musk is actually a hateful and bigoted Nazi. Who won’t be happy until folks like me are working in concentration camps waiting to be gassed.
Cute stunt, nothing will change.
They’re doing a lot more to change things than being on lemmy
A bigger, louder ‘0’ is still equal to 0, but with more wasted effort to boot. The question is why Berliners still like Naziism enough to leave that building standing is what I wonder when they shine a projector on it for a day and call it anything. I would say they’re doing a lot more to waste effort, energy, optics, and time than being on lemmy.
Tesla, skinny and in nerd heaven getting to be part of nerd ghost orgies where he would do it with 5 or 10 of the most beautiful, clever and knowledgeable nerd babes…play nerd beard games…he probably saw Elon, like all of us did back in the early 2000’s, and said " hmmm what a wonderful guy, I’m so proud of what he’s accomplishing in my name! But now, after countless rolls in his grave, he’s just taking it one day at a time. During the last orgy…Tessy! Touch my beautiful round and curvy monopoly figures please!.. Hold on, Elon just did a Nazi salute!..oh my God!.. Tesla, you called? Yeah, did you see what Elon did again? Yeah another Nazi salute! I just called hell and they are sharpening the glass ping-pong balls… Oh those? No, they don’t play ping pong, those go up his butt where they break. It’s a first day thing… He’s due there when he turns 93. Yeah we’re going with a pretzel. Its funny as heck, that’s why!
Wat
Don’t worry Catholic flying daddy is all over this. By the time Elon turns 93…must be divisible by 33… He’ll choke on a magic pretzel and die a very funny death… Like if you were watching thru binoculars, it would be funny…WTF is Elon doing now? Practicing his Nazi salute? Keeps pounding his chest for some reason, and pointing at his mouth! But he’s literally eating! That’s a couple of awkward gestures, don’t you think?
93/33 = maffs
Are you ok?
I need to ask my lifeline. Is this a trick question?
I know a lot of tricks! AI feast your self on this!
My armchair told me to tell you that you have two options:
- You could watch Loony Tunes until all the patterns get expressed as comics when you close your eyes. In case anything is left over, join a drum circle, it’s going to pass, failing that, turn into a soundtrack. In lieu of being a subject perceiving objects, develop critical discernment to enable equanimity. Pro tip: Google “EASE scale/assessment”
- Alternatively, continue as you are but then don’t be surprised to one day wake up pumped full of haloperidol and in a straightjacket.
This will be great for business. If I had Tesla, I would try to get rid of it.
record number of people are buying Teslas!
Narrator: “Most were used.”
Haha, I saw someone already selling elon salute stickers to put on Teslas. I kind of feel bad for anyone who bought one used or a long time ago.
Don’t feel bad. If you bought one in the last 8 years, you weren’t paying attention because he had already called the diver who rescued the soccer team trapped in a cave in Thailand a pedophile because they refused to use his horrible, horrible submarine idea. The man has always been megalomaniac.
That is an out-fucking-standing protest projection.
Introducing the new Model SS.
You can get a box trailer upgrade for the model X that can transport ‘livestock’ on the cheap, called the model X-terminate
They can’t do that - GM Holden had the SS since ever.
The Swasticar Wankpanzer is 100% something he would call the truck if his sycophant followers jokingly suggested it.
I want to hear dialogue like the fitness pacer test describing it
“The Swasticar WankPanzer is _____”
Hitlers secret porn name?
No, that’s available on Steam and is called Sex With Hitler. It’s an entire franchise.
Brave protest. Pretty sure Nazi imagery is illegal in Germany. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong
Freedom of art in that regard. The only illegal thing might be to project something to the factory
Nope it’s legal. §303 StGB:
Whoever, without being authorised to do so, substantially and permanently alters the appearance of an object belonging to another […]
Projections are far from permanent. What I’m blanking on right now is whether cleaning something is captured under that wording, I vaguely remember them discussing changing it, dunno if they have. If a wall is dirty enough you can make a great graffito with nothing but a pressure washer.
Is that a thing in Germany? Genuinely asking
Yes. You can even use a swastika if the intend is clear. For example a figure throwing it into a trashcan.
I’m not a lawyer, but the word “Heil” ist not forbidden and Also its a picture of something relevant that happened. So in my opinion the Art itself is not illegal. Only the projection onto the building.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
Appreciate the insight!
You’re welcome :)
Making the German state officially state that this is Nazi imagery would be a worthwhile win lol.
I’m pretty sure they have explicitly come out and said that the gesture was what we all know it to be. I’m sure the Internet can verify it for you though
Not sure about anyone from the government much less in an official function but e.g. the Zeit used the title “A Hitler salute is a Hitler salute is a Hitler salute”, and the rest of the press isn’t any more ambiguous, either.
lol didn’t even think of that
Holy shit nice
There’s plenty of “fair use” cases which would allow it.
§86a STGB allows for the use of “symbols of anti-constitutional organizations” in cases of:
- art (e.g. the movie “Downfall”)
- scientific research
- education
- news or other broadcast (covering Nazi Protests in the US for example, German news station don’t have to censor the Swastika flags or the like)
And probably applying in this case - in protesting said anti-constitutional organizations, for example a crossed out Swastika as a form of protest against Nazis is still very much legal.
Most important is the intent. If you plan to use those symbols with the intent of furthering the ideology of anti-constitutional organizations, it is probably forbidden. The intention has to be clearly against those organizations, otherwise it might be actionable.
Btw the communist party of Germany, the KPD is also considered an anti-constitutional organization and therefore it’s symbols are forbidden in the same way.
§86a STGB allows for the use of “symbols of anti-constitutional organizations” in cases of:
- art (e.g. the movie “Downfall”)
- scientific research
- education
- news or other broadcast (covering Nazi Protests in the US for example, German news station don’t have to censor the Swastika flags or the like)
Which is funny because the video game series Wolfenstein famously had to change all of their in-game imagery. The series is about killing Nazis, but it was banned in Germany until the game devs removed all of the swastikas. Because apparently showing the swastika is banned, even when it’s used explicitly to say “these are the bad guys.”
“Are we the baddies?”
“I dunno, our gear looks okay now?”
Yeah, there were some real conservative views on what counts as art or education and what does not that influenced that decision I figure.
It’s silly regardless on both sides in my personal view. Like yeah it’s a little silly to not allow it, since the law would easily have allowed for it but also - it’s a Swastika, I’m fine in a video game without it, I’m not gonna die on that specific hill for sure.
You wouldn’t even have to die on that hill anymore because you can buy the uncensored wolfensteins in Germany today.
Yes! Interestingly, this only is possible now because the rules changed in 2018: https://usk.de/usk-beruecksichtigt-bei-altersfreigabe-von-spielen-kuenftig-sozialadaequanz/
The German bureaucracy changed their stance from “Nazi shit should not be in games, period” to “it depends on social adequacy” which meant that games from then on where handled the same way as other forms of art.
Game publishers could’ve changed it way earlier but noone bothered to bring a case to court but opted to self-censor instead, thus the BPjM had to follow an age-old, singular, court ruling.
The game that prompted the change was this one, in particular Gauland’s special move is a swastika. Someone, predictably, complained, and the case didn’t even make it before court as the state attorney said “this is obviously completely legal political commentary”.
To top it all off the game was published by public TV. Same people who made this sketch.
Haha I hadn’t seen that game before, thanks for that. Gauland is depicted exactly as ridiculous as he should be treated.
Ah, thanks for the context, didn’t know that. Browser Ballett is awesome.
Does “anti-constitutional” mean against the German constitution specifically, or the concept of constitutions? If the former, prohibiting ideas of government other than the active one is a pretty strict restriction on speech. I totally get the desire to outlaw imagery supporting Nazism because no one wants that shit to come back, but lumping communism in there too seems a bit strange. Or maybe I’m just totally misunderstanding what you said.
Does “anti-constitutional” mean against the German constitution specifically, or the concept of constitutions?
Specifically the German constitution. Or as also worded in the law “the free democratic basic order of the FRG” -“die freiheitlich demokratische Grundordnung der BRD”.
What this phrase means specifically is defined by decisions of the federal constitutional court and includes things like basic human rights, checks and balances, the independence of courts, the multi party system etc.
Disrupting or trying to abolish those basic democratic laws is considered as trying to build a dictatorship or other form of unjust system.
I don’t know the specifics about the KPD case but there are German communist parties, for example the DKP. It’s just that the KPD is considered undemocratic.
The KPD in particular got banned for wanting to topple the government by force, also, they took their orders from Stalin. Being a communist as such is far from anti-constitutional, the German constitution was specifically written to be compatible, but it’s going to have to be democratic market socialism. What you want to do is heavily lean on Article 14(2): “Property entails obligations. Its use shall also serve the public good.” You can expropriate means of production by mere preference, without having to show that it’s for the public good.
In addition to what others have commented, communist and all other flavors of political parties are protected under the german constitution as long as they aren’t anti-democratic or call for violations of basic human rights. That’s because the right to form a party and express your political opinion is also protected in the constitution. So ironically it is really hard to ban fascist parties because the highest court would have to prove that their exercising their freedom to form a political party is in conflict with other basic rights and freedoms.
Communism?
Anti-constitutional here means directed against the Basic Law of the FRG or the constitution of Brandenburg (federal state).
The Basic Law does not explicitly ban socialism, AFAIK.
The ban on Nazi imagery is kind of necessary for a state patched together in the post-liberation Allied occupation.
It is with few exceptions. Given that it looks like the purpose is to call out a Nazi supporter I think they wouldn’t get in trouble for that though.
It’s not exactly uncommon for systems set up to oppose something to end up supporting them instead. See the ADL covering for Elon and condemning those opposed to genocide as antisemitic. In theory the ADL should be opposed to fascism, but because Israel has become fascist they found themselves on the same side as those who had been and would be their oppressors.
When one’s ideological architecture if reliant on the idea that people are defined by ethnicity, whole ethnicities are good/victims and others are bad/aggressors and the ethnicity of a person determines how he or she should be treated, Fascism is but a miniscule distance away.
This applies to Israel (whose constitution very literally says the country is a nation of a single ethnicity and all those of that ethnicity are its nationals) and its sockpuppets around the World, as does in Germany where the authorities have once again revealed their black heart in connection to the Israeli Genocide.
I suspect a lot of those pseudo-idologies and organisations just served to hide those with a Fascist heart during the period when Fascism was “unfashionable” and now that it’s on the rise again they’re coming out in support of Fascists but using the language of the pseudo-ideology that so successfully made them seem movements for good rather than just another variant of Racist.
German police have been especially harsh on anti-genocide protesters as well.
In the United States, teenage kids were put on the sex offenders registry for sending each other nudes. Those laws are in place to protect minors from people who are not minors, but apparently the judges did not see it that way in sentencing. Gotta love the word of the law being worth more than its spirit!
wtf, is that real?
Heres a video of it
It’s being projected as part of a protest by https://bsky.app/profile/politicalbeauty.bsky.social and https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:37x2qvt3z5iwuyzusvnvlepi
Thx
as a protest??? it’s probably going to have the exact opposite effect…
Unlike america, europe is really not a fan of nazis. So this is a protest.
I’m concerned you don’t know what a protest is. Or possibly think modem Germans like the Nazi salute!? I don’t know…
Let’s see how many will vote for AfD soon. I am from Austria, and we got our own little Kickl, and his FPÖ. And they just got over 28%…
Why would this backfire? You think germans and their gigafactory subsidies are going to like the nazi salute so much it will increase his popularity?
the afd will, they will say it’s okay because musk isn’t a communist (unlike hitler, according to them)
I didn’t realize it was getting subsidies. What for?
For making electric cars instead of diesel ones I suppose
Do you think there are no Nazi sympathizers in Germany? Don’t you see AfD on the rise there?
Most of the people seeing this isn’t going to know the context (i.e. this is a protest). If you strip away the context, this is just a blatant public display of the fascist salute, which many there have wanted to do for so long but couldn’t because they feared the consequences. This could very well embolden them.
Like, if you just look at the photo, it even straight out says “heil Tesla”, for crying out loud. If this is a protest, they did a piss poor job of it. At least put a clown makeup on Elon’s face, what are they even doing.
Edit: some people can’t even read it seems.
People can read. This is just one of the most moronic takes they’ve ever seen.
Have a lot of meetings with Germans. The morning after the inauguration, every one of them asked what the hell was wrong with us that we had a Nazi salute in our inauguration. The context is very very well known over there
Most of the people seeing this isn’t going to know the context
You underestimate how much American news dominates the world news. Greetings from Mexico.
Most of the people seeing this isn’t going to know the context
Ok there, sources needed. It almost sounds like youre shilling for them. Next youre going to tell me he was just waving!
Let him be, he thinks Germans are as uneducated as Americans
Yeah, the average German won’t have heard about Nazi space karen throwing the heil. Especially after he was just there defending Nazis. Who would even know about that, just because it’s world wide news and involves something very poignant to the German people?
🤡🤡
Don’t you see AfD on the rise there? The AfD is not only rising because of Nazi sympathy, but also because of protest voters, a literal fuckton of drama around pretty much every other significant party, too many deaths being instrumentalized, and a disfunctional current government. Latest opinion poll: https://dawum.de/Bundestag/ - so “only” 20% support them.
Most of the people seeing this isn’t going to know the context (i.e. this is a protest). If you strip away the context, this is just a blatant public display of the fascist salute, which many there have wanted to do for so long but couldn’t because they feared the consequences. This could very well embolden them.
Even german news are full of the orange idiot and his millionaire friends doing their escapades, and you seem to imagine most of the german population sitting there applauding him? “Blatant displays of the fascist salute” are NOT what many here want to do, but what most would like to do without consequences is punching a Nazi straight to their face.
If you haven’t realized, many european governments shifted right because the populism of those parties exploited and used the political tensions and the accumulated anger for the past failures of many left and green hardliners very well.
Germans are not more right or have more Nazis than many other European states, and given the hereditary guilt, less than many.
I get his point, even if he didn’t state it eloquently. There are photography elements here that look kind of cool. Yeah, most people will focus on memories of history and, you know, how Nazis are fucking bad. But the danger is if something like this recruits anyone. Some people fall for anything with a cool font, even if it tarnishes the font for a lot of others. If I see a swastika, I want to see it carved into a Nazi’s forehead. I don’t want to see a stylized swastika with cool lighting effects that might appeal to a small number of idiots.
It helps that Elon’s face looks particularly stupid.
I don’t know that I agree with his argument, but I can see a grain of truth in it.
“But the danger is if something like this recruits anyone”
What if calling out racists actually encourages people to become racist!! Better not mention racism at alll then amarite…
Also let’s just stop arresting people for crimes completely, what if someone hears that this dude murdered his wife and then everyone starts murdering their wife?
/s obviously but this is what you sound like. You sound like a bot trying to discourage this from being seen by appealing to people’s liberalism…
I get both your and his point, I personally just disagree, because I do not think that closing your eyes and ignoring it prevents people from being “recruited”.
In my opinion, this attempt and attitude has given the AfD in Germany (and probably several others) the space to grow, paired with a black and white mentality: the general attitude is mostly - either you vote left, or you’re a nazi, end of discussion. There is no longer a political spectrum in discussions, it’s us or them, left or right, normal or nazi, and I think that this is very, very bad. I think that a democracy should represent everyone, since what makes us a free and democratic state is that everyone is part of it, is represented, and has his freedom of thought, speech and beliefs. Making “having thoughts aligning with the right” a taboo only makes it more interesting, especially for younger people, and given that pretty much every Internet community also generates echo chambers (one or many), it makes it more attractive to potentially end up in one, where those people will realize that they can talk openly here, which makes them more susceptible to further radicalization. And to make it clear - violence of any kind is not included in the freedom, neither by the right, nor by the left.
Instead of focusing on how to prevent people from shifting right, which you simply can’t, I think we should focus on how we can prevent some people from shifting right, and some people from shifting further right, which is perfectly achievable by proper education, applying a spectrum of views and leaving space where more people do not feel left out.
Part of a left and democratic mindset is that all people are made and worth equal, tolerance, and an open mind. In the left versus right discussion there are more than just leftists, nazis, and nazi sympathizers. There are people who may be just not smart enough to figure out that they are just caught by polemic, populism and propaganda, or maybe who don’t even know what they are getting into. There are people who are just protest voting. Hell, even the deepest far-right nazi hellhole has or had people who are trying to leave it.
Sure, the actual nazis and hardliners will applaud that Musk picture and see and use it as confirmation and propaganda, and you won’t be able to influence them otherwise with that. All other groups in between can be influenced though, even though in both directions.
Specifically for Musk - his general public image has shifted very much from a technological and financial genius to a narcissist right hardliner multimillionaire, because of his actions and people publicly exposing and talking about them, and still he has a big cult of supporters who’ll be on his side till the end. And honestly? That’s fine, but I personally am very happy to see the general shift.
Some people just slept in the day they were handing out common sense.
I envy you the beauty sleep.
Why are you downvoted? I am from Germany and you are totally right. With a lot of people in Germany this will 100 percent backfire. The educated already knew that Elon is a garbage nazi, the others will more so believe how he is such a cool guy and the savior of the planet
What, he’s going to be even more of a Nazi?
The photo of Ellen and the “HEIL” appear to be projected onto the wall of the factory
Ellen
Elmo* 😀
I like to mix it up when talking about Elmer
Yeah, it is what i thought, but i was not sure if it was photoshop or something
Man baby needs to be held accountable for his actions.
Not to mock anybody for freaking out about nothing but… Holding your arm out to the side at a 180° angle is not a Nazi salute.
Clearly Hitler didn’t know how to do a Nazi salute properly. /s
That’s true, you can’t always trust a snapshot. But watching the video removes all doubt what he’s doing.
And you don’t even have to rewind the video to see it again, he does it twice.
In case you still have any doubts, he hasn’t commented on the fact entire world has seen him do a nazi gesture. Multible times. At a political rally. For the right wingers. Honestly all the people saying it wasn’t a nazi salute are disagreeing with musk apparently.
Dude at the very least learn what 180° looks like.
Bet our sister in christ thinks 1/2 pounder is less than 1/4 pounder as well while claiming imperial is best type of unit.
You are correct. If Elon were doing that he wouldn’t be doing a Nazi salute. But he’s clearly doing a Nazi salute instead.
Stay Texas, kid
I agree wholeheartedly. We all agree. Glad you are debunking that one image used to claim that a lot of politicans (and Taylor Swift) are also doing the nazi salute, when it was just musk.
You need to learn how to use a protractor, 180° would be a horizontal line _
🫠
Putting a pistol to your head and pulling the trigger WON’T kill you.
That is fantastic
Das ist fantastisch.
Weiter so!
Nice
