- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
From the article:
"I know for a fact that Wikipedia operates under a CC BY-SA 4.0 license, which explicitly states that if you’re going to use the data, you must give attribution. As far as search engines go, they can get away with it because linking back to a Wikipedia article on the same page as the search results is considered attribution.
But in the case of Brave, not only are they disregarding the license - they’re also charging money for the data and then giving third parties “rights” to that data."
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TIL; stay away from Brave.
Not only because of this article, but merely an hour ago I have read also this post (numerous links provided in the post) about the dubious Brendan Eich.
i don’t get why people choose to use brave, firefox is great and if you really need that chromium base ungoogled chromium exists
Firefox has always been my go-to. In my opinion more people should use it.
Librewolf is starting to replace Firefox for me. Either way birds of a feather!
I think LW is better out of the box. It has both UBO and Containers built in. Which is just awesome. I still use FF as my daily just because I have customized it beyond belief, but if I were to start over again I think I’d start with LW.
I think Brave did some aggressive marketing, including social media posts and comments. I did buy their narrative at first too - a browser that already tuned to block ads and trackers. But later I’ve noticed that it constantly connects back to brave server and it looked suspicious. Firefox is the best.
Agreed, a lot of Reddit comments felt very shilly. Firefox is king and helps prevent Google dictate web standards.
Yeah, exactly. If every browser is chromium based the web will be an unhealthy monoculture. Easy for a single player to dictate standards. Haven’t seen this mentioned as much, but its really important
Brave is great for less techy people because it’s defaults are good enough. It’s not necessary to tweak settings and install add-ons to get basic privacy. I definitely prefer Firefox, but it takes some knowledge to get it to surpass Brave’s defaults.
I don’t like installing add-ons. I’d rather have it baked into the browser.
Add-ons give you a lot more choice and control than baked in options.
What’s stopping Brave’s blocker from just allowing ads from Brave’s services? Can you see under the hood to tell if it’s blocking everything or just surface level stuff?
A proprietary built in blocker is only as trustworthy as the people that made it, and as the links in this discussion suggest, Brave isn’t earning much trust.
you are right about choice and more control but brave’s ad blocker is not proprietary here is the github link, ublock origin is still the king though
Of course, using add-ons also requires diligence, as each add-on from each source requires one to both trust the source and vet each source regularly. An add-on is also as trustworthy as the people that made it, and one must be willing to do the work the verify that those add-ons continue to be safe.
For me, Firefox is an inferior product in terms of security feature implementation
https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/firefox-chromium.html
Stock Firefox has very limited privacy protections.
> ungoogled chromium exists
The reason is they have proper build infrastructure managed by the Brave. With Ungoogled Chromium the binaries are produced by third parties, vary in version etc. People claim they would only use “open source software” but they do download binary versions nevertheless and don’t compile that code themselves. This increases the risk of a supply chain attack, where a malicious binary is submitted and nobody has really knows until it is too late. The other issue is they disable CRLSets because of “google hate” which we think actually increases the likelihood of a MiTM attack occurring because rogue certificates are not detected and invalidated as quickly as they could have been.
This article describes a few other things https://qua3k.github.io/ungoogled/
Everything is a process and personally thats no excuse to not criticize the bad actions of a project like brave, but in the topic of personal opinions like those from Brandon Eich’s, i think is completely emotional the reactions of the brave users, he has awful opinions with the same sex mariage thing and covid but that does not mean the damn product/service he’s part of is bad or have censorship. He better shut up and dont ruin a good project because he wants to “speak up” about his stupid rant about insane opinions that makes bad PR.
Well fuck. Thank you. Guess i need to change browsers. Any recs or is firefox best?
You can try Librewolf. It is a firefox fork with focus on privacy. You do not need to go through many settings when setting it up, as you need to do with firefox standalone.
Ungoogled Chromium is my current favourite
Previously was using Firefox Developer’s edition which is also decent. But I like a minimalist browser that acts more like a framework to which I can just add what I want, and doesn’t come with a lot of bullshit I don’t need.
> Ungoogled Chromium is my current favourite
The reason we don’t recommend Ungoogled Chromium and instead recommend Brave on the privacyguides.org website is because they have proper build infrastructure managed by the Brave. With Ungoogled Chromium the binaries are produced by third parties, vary in version etc. People claim they would only use “open source software” but they do download binary versions nevertheless and don’t compile that code themselves. This increases the risk of a supply chain attack, where a malicious binary is submitted and nobody has really knows until it is too late. The other issue is they disable CRLSets because of “google hate” which we think actually increases the likelihood of a MiTM attack occurring because rogue certificates are not detected and invalidated as quickly as they could have been.
This article describes a few other things https://qua3k.github.io/ungoogled/
I liked Brave for a while. But slowly things just started to feel sketchy to me. Their weird insistence on putting their crypto bullshit and wallet services in your face. I just felt like, “I want a browser. Can’t you just be a fucking browser?” At a certain point adding all these other ‘services’ they just end up just a weird-ass money making scheme, like they’re two steps away from using my computer for crypto mining.
tsk tsk tsk. When will people learn to just use Firefox or Librewolf? Do you want a web browser, or an AI training crypto wallet?
I read ya.
I was always skeptical about Brave with their side projects of crypto etc. Its funny because privacytools.io recommends them till this day.
I have been using Librewolf for some time now and I am happy with it.
privacytools.io is no longer the recommended one since the mod/domain owner split a long while ago, it now heavily endorses ads (such as nordvpn) you instead should use
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/tools/
Brave still is a great browser just disable a few settings as recommended in the guide
Brave still is a great browser just disable a few settings as recommended in the guide
Brave is still Chromium in a new coat of paint and you’re still aiding Google in their domination of web standards.
> Brave is still Chromium in a new coat of paint and you’re still aiding Google in their domination of web standards.
That is a little unfair tbh, they do quite a lot, such as their privacy shields, including the script blocking one which is basically like NoScript.
They also do some work on anti fingerprinting tech and other things along that vein.
If the whole selling point of a browser is security/privacy you shouldn’t have to check any boxes to make it work as advertised. It’s not a great browser or worthy of trust.
They also offer other things like a search engine which is not opensource, which is understandable for a business perspective.
But I don’t know. I just don’t have a good feeling about Brave.
Also, I prefer Firefox based browsers on desktop, we need competition in the browser space.
On mobile, the chromium based browsers are just to superior in performance to switch from.
Privacy Guides recommends them also.
Except we’re transparent as to why and Burung Hantu (Marco Wollank) (current owner of PTIO) is not.
This not exclusive to brave, AI copyright is still not clear. Bing and others like Bard are doing the same.
Yeah and I expect it from those companies. I guess I was naive enough to think Brave would be better than this.
But then I didn’t know about Eich’s homophobia, antivaxx beliefs and basic awfulness either (as mentioned in the link u/Xaeris mentions.)
Honestly I don’t care about his political beliefs, and Brave search is the only competitve independent search engine out there, it’s genuinely a joy to use. Until AI crawling gets banned they aren’t doing anything wrong.
Brave continues to be the best mainstream private browser, backed by actions instead of empty words like Firefox.
You don’t think there’s anything wrong with selling you the ‘rights’ to other people’s content?
You are being sold access to their AI model, not just content. OpenAI is doing the same thing, and until the court bans that, it’s legally ok, if you are asking morally, then that differs from person to person, and for companies any competitve edge is worth it.
I personally stopped caring as its going to happen anyway, the only way to stop it is the courts to get involved, as any search engine won’t be competitve without AI assists.
And even that isn’t clear, we don’t know if AI learning is fair use or not, they are many arguments on both side, with big names like the EFF siding with the fair use.
I guess I am asking morally. I expect this sort of thing from Bing and Google but it surprised me to see a company that is privacy focused basically trampling over someone elses IP to the point they feel they can offer rights to someone elses content and make money from it.
Obviously, this was before I learned what sort of person Eich is. Now I’m not surprised. I guess we all have to decide if something goes against our own principles enough to use/not use something.
It’s nothing privacy invasive. It’s a way to improve their search engine, these hit pieces against brave always get over amplified for no reason.
Privacy invasive or not, it’s not right what they’re doing and, in my opinion, speaks to their ethics as a company. That in turn leads me to mistrust choices they might make in the future, including regarding privacy.
you know that this “I don’t care that this person holds bigoted beliefs and thinks that some people shouldn’t have rights, they make the good computer program so who cares” attitude is why so many people think that tech guys are reactionary, right?
Well I am already used to using software from people who I don’t agree with in politics.
We are using one right now, Lemmy’s devs are AFAIK tankies, and that doesn’t really matter.
Also not all people share your political opinions.
Also not all people share your political opinions.
how are you going to call “this group shouldn’t have the rights that everyone else has” something as quaint as a “political opinion”
They are not the same rights.
you know, it’s really funny that every time someone goes “I don’t care about <XYZ>'s open political opinions, only that they keep doing/making the thing I want” they invariably end up being some kind of right-winger
I guess the crypto stuff along with the ads just made me not at all shocked by this. Not that I think it’s a bad browser, since I’ve had people I tried to explain addons too who found it too confusing so needed an out the box built in solution. But, Firefox continues to be my go to for years and years.
You linked to the Alexandrite app, not lemmy itself.
Whoops - sorry, fixed it now.
Better :) Use “copy URL” not “copy fediverse URL” next time though and it will keep the person in their same instance and they won’t have to login.
Dunno if you edited it, but now it links to the sidebar rules.
the shady world of brave
Whelp that’s it I’m going to Firefox. That’s all I needed to see
Edit: annnd uninstalled. That’s all she wrote
Lol isn’t that what all these ai chatbots are doing?
Well fuck, what am I supposed to use? I use bitwarden for passwords, so that shit works everywhere, but I want a mobile browser and a desktop browser that share history. Being able to share tabs between devices is a nice bonus.
Firefox on mobile is hot garbage with infuriating UI bugs. I keep trying to switch to it, and keep switching away after a few days.
I’m sure as shit not going to Chrome.
What issues are you encountering on android Firefox? I’ve used Firefox + ublock for years and I don’t think I have ever encountered an issue that was fixed by using chrome instead.
I’ve never had any big problems with Firefox Android either. I do prefer the Fennec branch though, since it’s on F-Droid and has about:config
I use Firefox on iOS and grapheneOS and it works fine. UI is not as nice as others but it works. Never seen bugs personally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Isn’t Firefox on iOS essentially a skinned Safari? Unless Apple has changed their stance, I thought all browsers had to use webkit?
I believe it is, yes.
Maybe I’m just cursed then. When full screening a video in landscape there’s a 30% chance the tab will freak out and close. When I scroll sometimes the content doesn’t move, but the menu bars show up as if I was scrolling. Trying to swipe through google images takes several tries before it will stick. These are just a few problems, I’m sure I’ve seen more.
What phone model are you using? Rooted?
Nope, just a regular s20+
Have you tried firefox focus?
Librewolf
May not be as ideal as it requires manual selection but Chromium has a visible share button for QR on the address bar. Or you can use Pushbullet/Join/KDE Connect to share links with your phone.
Is this only referring to the Brave search engine?
But it is designed by their company. Their products represent their leadership.
Firefox and DDG for me.
I honestly just started cracking up after seeing DDG mentioned after those initial 2 sentences.
DuckDuckGo does not care about your privacy. Switch to SearX, StartPage, or Kagi.
What makes you say DDG does not care about privacy?
Didn’t start page get taken over by an advertising company?
System1. Here’s a discussion about it.
I still fluctuate between using Startpage and public SearXNG instances myself, but I have mixed feelings about Startpage.
Thanks for the links. It looks like they engaged, but it is a little waffley, and it doesn’t exactly explain why they purchased them and where they see the ROI. If they are investing capital, they would need a return to make it profitable. It didn’t touch of whether they were after ad space without data (non targetted which isn’t worth a lot less, but may guarantee real estate), or a paid for service where Startpage will generate it’s own profits from services. Without further clarification, it doesn’t sit comfortably.
I have the same concerns. There’s got to be some reason they invested, and no matter how much they claim it doesn’t impact privacy, I don’t trust any ad agency whatsoever. Their whole business is deception and lies.
What instance of searx are you using? Is ononoki a good instance, please don’t tell me to host my own, because I don’t have the budget for it.
I haven’t tried ononoki, but the one I use is https://searx.tiekoetter.com/
Thanks for the link, I’ll try this one.
It’s their Search API.
Looks like yes
Does anyone have another Chromium browser recommendation for Android?
Idk why you want to go with chromium based, firefox got mobile extensions!
Ublock origin on the go
- On Android, Firefox lacks per-site process isolation, which makes it less secure than Chromium browsers (not insecure, just less secure.)
- With privacy.resistFingerprinting on, Firefox on Android is stuck at 60hz, which I don’t like.
- There is a noticeable difference in performance between Firefox and Chromium. Firefox is consistently slower when loading webpages, which you notice after using Chromium.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Firefox. I use LibreWolf on desktop. I just can’t justify using it on Android, at least not yet. Guess I’ll go back to using Vanadium.
When I switched from Chrome to Firefox Mobile I didn’t notice any slowdown. I’m surprised you noticed anything because presumably your phone is newer than mine, since I’ve only got a 60Hz display in the first place.
Fair enough
60hz
Why would a human need more?
This might not matter to 60hz users but to the ones used to 120hz, it is jarring to go back to 60hz. Everything feels a split second slower and animations look pretty choppy.
Maybe I am too old, I never see any difference. Also IIRC I read once our eyes/brain/wahtever can’t tell the difference anyway. Guess I was wrong.
What does privacy.resitfingerprinting mean?
It is a setting in the about:config menu on FireFox Beta and Nightly. When enabled, the browser tries to hide certain information about your browser and device from websites.
It even has desktop extensions if you use nightly mobile.
Kiwi has extensions. I like kiwi.
Mulch
I’d like to shout out Mull (Firefox based) and Mulch (Chrome based) web browsers. They are basically more secure and private versions of those app and they maintained by the devs of DivestOS which is the privacy Android OS that is recommended for devices that aren’t Pixels.
Yep, I use Mull on my mobile. Supports various privacy related add-ons too.
I’ve been telling people for over a year to not use brave after they did that crypto referral injection thing lol
Is that shady? Arent all other AI companies + many other data gather services doing exactly the same thing. We need to wait for the court cases to conclude if AI datasets can use publicly available information for training.
Just because multiple companies are doing it doesn’t make it less shady. They’re literally selling you ‘rights’ to content that isn’t theirs to sell.
Yet another reason to not use Brave
Any particular add-ons for Firefox other than uBlock Origin? I have Tampermonkey and Stylish, but anything else you all recommend?
I’ve seen Librewolf being recommended as well.
Thank you. I’ve always used Firefox and when Brave came out I thought I’d give it a go, been using it about 50/50 with Firefox. After reading this I’ll be getting rid of Brave!
It’s a shame. I like what Brave was at the beginning.
Decentraleyes
Oh, interesting. Didn’t know that. Thanks for the tip!
