• BatrickPateman@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2231·
    3 months ago

    First they were the second most powerful army in the world.

    Then they were the second most powerful in Ukraine.

    And now they are the second most powerful in Russia.

    I like they way this is going 🤗.

    • mommykink@lemmy.worldEnglish
      51·
      3 months ago

      And now they are the second most powerful in Russia.

      I think it’s been that way for longer than people think. Remember when Wagner just rolled through Russia without any resistance? Putin’s might has always been false promises/ blackmail, but it’s obvious now that Russia hasn’t had the means to back itself up for a while now

      • barsquid@lemmy.worldEnglish
        33·
        3 months ago

        Prigozhin should have waited to betray Russia until Ukraine was in a position like this.

        Seems like he was an idiot, though. IDK what level of delusional hubris one needs to be on to travel to Moscow after an attempt such as that.

        • illi@lemm.eeEnglish
          9·
          3 months ago

          With how it went down he was mainly an idiot for standing down. Idk how he imagined that ending

          • SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.orgEnglish
            4·
            3 months ago

            I think it might have been dissatisfaction of his troops that lead to the coup. He knew it would not work out, so he tried to bail out quickly. He should have probably just left the country never to return.

            • illi@lemm.eeEnglish
              5·
              3 months ago

              Once he started he had two options: continue until the end and maybe die trying or just die. For some reason he opted for the second one.

          • Saryn@lemmy.worldEnglish
            123·
            3 months ago

            The fact that people like you can rationalize the Kremlin’s far-right, proto-fascist ideology as some sort of anti-Nazi movement is just more proof that the biggest threat to humanity is ingorance combined with a near-infinite potential for self-serving delusions. We desperately need to reform our formal education systems and limit the impact of authoritarian propaganda as much as possible, and from there the number of victims, like Dragon.

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
      19·
      3 months ago

      they made a classic blunder- the one slightly more well known than getting into it with a scillian when death is on the line! Getting into a land war in Asia!

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
          18·
          3 months ago

          Russia is. (ukraine may not be. Usually the distinction is a bit further east of Ukraine- around the ural mountains.)

          but.

          Russia definitely are asian. So. given that they picked a fight on their border… I’m gonna go ahead and say “close enough” to make fun of them.

          • lolcatnip@reddthat.comEnglish
            82·
            3 months ago

            I think it’s probably more correct to say Russia straddles the border between Europe and Asia. The people in charge are European, and Asian Russians are treated more like serfs and cannon fodder. Disclaimer: I am not a social scientist.

            • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
              3·
              3 months ago

              well, “usually” the geographic divide is placed either at the Ural mountains, and southward through the caspian sea. (which cuts off the western third of russian, more or less.)

              That said, if you go with geological distinctions, there’s only one tectonic plate covering eurasia. So it’s important to note that what it really comes down to is an arbitrary cultural distinction; basically a “are they more east or more west”. and that’s above my paygrade.

              I’m just here to mock them any way I can.

              It should also be noted, that part of the reason for the line in Princess Bride is what happened to the germans picking fights with the soviets- which was definitely a military blunder of epic proportions.

              The ostensible reason for the German invasion in ww2 was because they needed a source of oil to continue the war effort. which, the military staff wanted to invade the middle east, Iran, Iraq. Palestine, etc. I forget what they were called at the time. the middle east was largely equipped and armed with cast offs from ww1; that were obsolete before that war had even ended.

              But Hitler insisted, instead, of going into Siberia mostly because he absolutely loathed and despised Stalin. Which, there’s no reason to believe that the Germans couldn’t have steam rolled the middle eastern states. the question I have is how the occupation would have gone over. history says that holding Arab states is not an easy proposition. Suffice it to say that ww2 was likely to have been far more protracted than it was.

        • andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          7·
          3 months ago

          Most of productive thoughts throughout the pre-soviet russian history was wasted on that exact question. No joke. That long-going identity crisis even caused a divide within the elites about the choice of following either the european footsteps (westerners) or going on their own (slavic-philes).

            • andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              6·
              3 months ago

              The correct russian names for these two groups are западники and славянофилы. I feel like googling them like this you’d encounter better results. But they are limited to one period of history while the question itself was before and after them.

      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        12·
        3 months ago

        In Asia? Ukraine isn’t in Asia, even western Russia isn’t considered to be in Asia…

  • Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1392·
    3 months ago

    Go Ukraine, fuck Russia.
    A not very wealthy country of about only 120 million people wanted to play superpower.
    They were offered peace, cooperation and prosperity, but instead they chose corruption and confrontation.
    Russia could very possibly have been the biggest economy in Europe by now, if they had chosen cooperation. That would have made them more powerful and influential than all the bullshit they’ve pulled to undermine the west and their neighbors.

    • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      642·
      3 months ago

      I totally agree.

      After the collapse of the Soviet Union, they were handed everything they wanted on a silver plate.

      They could have been Poland on steroids.

      But they chose to reject it, so stupid.

      • Rakonat@lemmy.world
        481·
        3 months ago

        Russians have been brainwashed for centuries by their elites to thinking corruption is the natural order of things.

        They can’t believe that western nations can have shows of wealth and quality of life standards they do, because that means the way they and their ancestors have lived for decades isn’t how people are supposed to live.

        Their elites steal everything, ensure education standards are low as possible so their workers can just barely manage to operate in a factory, on a farm or in a mine, and then encourage them to stay drunk as possible during their waking hours.

        And then they wonder why Russians who manage to emigrate west never go home and sooner or later cut all contact with their backwards motherland.

        Frankly if it hadn’t been for the advent of Nuclear Weapons, and Soviets stealing designs for them from America, Russia never would have been a Superpower at all and probably collapse in on itself in the 60s.

    • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      451·
      3 months ago

      wanted to play superpower

      As someone who is from that region, it’s not even that. A whole lot of countries want to play superpower, and they are only mildly hated for it. The US, the French, even the Chinese are an abstract economic threat. The Russians want to play 18th century superpower and that makes them a concrete military threat.

      The stupid thing is, just by looking at the state of the world right now, they totally would have won the long game if they went soft power only. Putin is a failure that way as well I guess.

    • suction@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1117·
      3 months ago

      At some point we’ll probably have to admit that they’re culturally not inclined to do good. That and the rampant alcohol abuse is holding them back.

      • explodicle@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        52·
        3 months ago

        How quickly we forget the first satellite, first man in space, first nuclear power plant, first fusion reactor, and the MIR space station.

        Something has indeed been holding them back since those things were created, and their culture hasn’t significantly changed since then.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish
        121·
        3 months ago

        What’s your point? It clearly states the cold war ended with the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.
        Most of eastern Europe chose to democratize, and they are way better off today than in 1991. But Russia chose to undermine the west and the countries around them, instead of cooperation.

        Countries are at war with each others.

        That’s not a law of nature by any means.

        • index@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          114·
          3 months ago

          But Russia chose to undermine the west and the countries around them, instead of cooperation.

          West and russia have been at war since WWII and even before read the article on cold war carefully.

          • Worstdriver@lemmy.worldEnglish
            6·
            3 months ago

            As someone who lived during a large chunk of the Cold War, let me add some personal perspective on this. You are absolutely right in that the Soviet Union and the West were in a war from WWII on. A spy war, an economic war and several hot proxy wars.

            The US lost nearly all of those, but they did win the economic war, and in doing so broke the USSR economically and politically.

            After the USSR fell, the Cold War was over. Done. Finito. To emphasize this, capitalism came pouring into all the former SSR’s and former Soviet citizens got to taste consumerism triggering chaos that took a full generation to hammer out. And then the 2010’s came along and Russia began using it’s natural resources to become more and more integrated with Europe.

            To the point where some analysts were beginning to be worried that Russia might come to dominate the EU economically.

            In fact, if Putin had waited another 5 years Europe would likely have become so dependant on Russian natural gas that they would literally have been unable to effectively protest any move Russia made, in fear of them turning off the tap. Russia was on the road to being THE dominant power in Europe, and Putin literally threw it ALL away chasing dreams of a renewed Russian Empire.

  • slumlordthanatos@lemmy.worldEnglish
    117·
    3 months ago

    To my knowledge, it’s the first time in history that a non-nuclear power invaded and occupied territory belonging to a nuclear power.

    So, that’s even more dubious history Putin played a part in.

      • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.worldEnglish
        34·
        3 months ago

        Serious question: was Israel really occupied at any point in time during, this or past, post maybe nuclear power times?

        I don’t think a short term raid that’s immediately repelled necessarily counts as occupation in this sense.

        My Israel history is also very limited

        • YTG123@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          5·
          3 months ago

          I don’t know much history either. Maybe Sinai in the Yom-Kippur war (1973)?

          • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.worldEnglish
            14·
            3 months ago

            Sinai in the Yom-Kippur

            I think that seems reasonable fair to count?

            Edit: US Gov was convinced in '75 but that’s only by the point they were convinced, and its quite possible it was prior.

            Edit: just reading more, but this was a pretty cool event from the war

            The Egyptian Army put great effort into finding a quick and effective way of breaching the Israeli defenses. The Israelis had built large 18-metre (59 foot) high sand walls with a 60-degree slope and reinforced with concrete at the water line. Egyptian engineers initially experimented with explosive charges and bulldozers to clear the obstacles, before a junior officer proposed using high pressure water cannons. The idea was tested and found to be a sound one, and several high pressure water cannons were imported from Britain and East Germany. The water cannons effectively breached the sand walls using water from the canal.

            • dessimbelackis@lemmy.worldEnglish
              9·
              3 months ago

              Fucking Britain lmao. Sets up Zionist Israel then sells water cannons to the Egyptians invading Israel. I’m sure it was private business but still hilarious.

    • Zron@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      3 months ago

      As long as no one’s nuclear trigger fingers get itchy, I’ll be happy.

      • localhost443@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        15·
        3 months ago

        My preferred fictional outcome is Putin orders a full launch, but almost all the missiles just do a small fart in their tubes as no maintenance was done, and the ones that launch end up reaching escape velocity and disappearing because the people in charge of the silos had long since sold the payloads for yacht money…

        • Zron@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          3 months ago

          Unfortunately, the US has a launch on warning policy.

          So even if every warhead Russia has is a dud, or doesn’t even re-enter the atmosphere, they’ll still be nuked into a fine mist of concrete and carbonized human dust about 20 minutes after we realize their bombs don’t work.

          And then the rest of us get to live through nuclear winter.

      • occhionaut@lemmy.worldEnglish
        8·
        3 months ago

        Putin knows that if he’s gonna press any big red buttons, it better be all of them because gloves are gonna be taken off against him.

  • Aurenkin@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    86·
    3 months ago

    Putin is finally making history, his legacy will now be remembered forever. What a great accomplishment! They said it would be over in 3 days, over two years later and now Ukrainian troops are in control of Russian territory.

    Amazing what Ukraine has managed to pull off here. Watching closely to see how this unfolds.

  • exanime@lemmy.worldEnglish
    45·
    3 months ago

    Oh no, poor Putin

    But remember, when god closes a door, he certainly opens a window…

    • mlg@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6·
      3 months ago

      The amount of scrubs skits involving a window makes this even funnier

  • eronth@lemmy.worldEnglish
    21·
    3 months ago

    Wowee, all he had to do was not be a shitter and this wouldn’t have happened. Now it will be his eternal reputation in history books.

    • mechoman444@lemmy.worldEnglish
      15·
      3 months ago

      This is all history will remember him for. A botched violent and illegal invasion of a peaceful country for absolutely no good reason whatsoever!

      • Fedizen@lemmy.worldEnglish
        14·
        3 months ago

        that and running russia for what 30 years now with Medvedev, starting a war on an alleged false flag attack and then running some kind of invasion every handful of years like clockwork.

        What’s funny is before Alex Jones became a giant putin simp he had, possibly correctly, suggested putin blew up some russian buildings to start a war in 1999

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings

    • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.eeEnglish
      5·
      3 months ago

      Its part of it. There’s also the better negotiating position, possibility of flanking the Kremlin’s defenses, and forcing them to respond in a situation where Ukraine has the momentum and defensive stance.

    • SSTF@lemmy.worldEnglish
      171·
      3 months ago

      Russia has undeniably made gains. Avdiivka is comparable in size to the Russian territory taken by Ukraine. Except it took Russia a year and 30,000 casualties and hundreds of armored vehicles losses. Ukraine’s push into Russia has happened over days and Russia still hasn’t pivoted with a coherent response.