“I will no longer be complicit in genocide [in Gaza]. I am about to engage in an extreme act of protest,” the man apparently said before setting himself alight and repeatedly shouting “Free Palestine!”

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  • treadful@lemmy.zip
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    9 months ago

    Law enforcement also drew a gun on the burning man during the incident, according to a report by Task and Purpose.

    When you’re a hammer…

    • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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      I read that and was like “of fucking course they did.” Honestly the next paragraph makes it even worse, IMO.

      Authorities were heard asking the man – “May I help you, sir?” – at first but as soon as he was engulfed in flames they started yelling at him to get down on the ground. They even drew their guns on the burning man before someone pushed them to get fire extinguishers to extinguish the fire.

      Threats of physical violence are the only tool they have in their toolbox. THE ONLY tool.

      • unwarlikeExtortion@lemmy.ml
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        Threats of physical violence are the only tool they have in their toolbox. THE ONLY tool.

        And actual gun violence. They’re the sniwflakiest and wimpiest of the all, bringing an AK-47 to a civilised discussion and feeling “threatened”.

          • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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            9 months ago

            casually j-walks across a non busy street

            https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/california-police-shooting-jaywalking-video-b1806614.html

            Sheriff’s deputies from Orange County fatally shot the man, 42-year-old Kurt Reinhold, amid an altercation in September in San Clemente, California.

            The video, released on Thursday last week, shows two sheriff’s deputies considering whether or not to charge Reinhold with jaywalking, before tackling him to the floor.

            Reports say the sheriff’s deputies were on patrol and were assigned to the homeless outreach team, when the shooting took place.

            One of the deputies says in the video, “Watch this, he’s going to jaywalk,” before asking Reinhold: "Are you going to stop or are we going to have to make you stop?

            "Jaywalking here? That’s ridiculous,” Reinhold adds.

      • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        No, but I’m sure you can get shot by police if you have an onion - that’s basically a biological weapon to assault delicate cop eyes.

  • tree@lemmy.zip
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    It’s a bit of a beleaguered point, but it’s very telling that this will assuredly get almost no coverage on big news networks like abc, cbs, fox, etc. and virtually no coverage in the larger papers like the NYT, sure the press agencies like Reuters and the AP will cover it and then redistributors like your source will publish this, but little thought among the media class/commentariet will be given to the man who decided there was so little hope of being able to do anything through legal/electoral means to stop a genocide that he could no longer stand idly by and had to do something to protest the sheer inhumanity of what’s going on. Barely anyone probably still remembers the person who did the same thing and died in 2022 on earth day protesting inaction on climate change/destruction, that story was absolutely buried. I don’t support any kind of self harm, but doing something as drastic as this requires a pretty compelling reason, most people remember Tibetan monks doing the same thing, but the same importance was not extended to that person in 2022 and will almost definitely not be extended to this person now. I may end up being wrong, but I expect this to be out of the news cycle/discourse in days at most.

    • sab@kbin.social
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      I was listening to BBC World Report this morning. They made quick mention of it along with some other things happening in the conflict, then went on to introduce their “expert” who would illuminate the situation.

      Their so called expert was an employee of some Israeli institute of security or whatever, and he talked on for ages with minimal push-back about how the israeli army is doing everything by the book and how “Gaza is safe for civilians, and if it’s not it’s the fault of Hamas”.

      That was all the coverage they did.

      What a fucking joke.

      • naturalgasbad@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        “gee why did he set himself on fire? must just be something people do”

        it’s laughable how US media attributes self-immolation in Tibet to what must be CPC oppression, but self-immolation in the US must just be a cute little coincidence due to poor mental health

      • tree@lemmy.zip
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        9 months ago

        you managed so thoroughly to miss the point I was making, I’m impressed

        • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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          You made an objective point, then a subjective one.

          The objective one: “it’s very telling that this will assuredly get almost no coverage on big news networks like abc, cbs, fox, etc.” They addressed the objective one with their links.

          The subjective one cannot be addressed yet, as it’s so soon after the event. You will probably end up correct that this event will not visibly persist, but you can’t know for sure, time will tell.

      • Ooops@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        Don’t confuse people whose whole narrative is build on some conspiracy of media suppression with facts.

        I guess skipping the term “Lügenpresse” to avoid the obvious link was deemed enough progress to keep that same 100 years old tactic alive…

        • onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          They said almost no and virtually no coverege. It’s not anti-semitic to point out that western media is heavily skewed towards Israel. You’re completely delusional if you think that’s not the case.

          Obviously there were going to be articles about the man who set himself on fire just as there was for the person who did it in 2022 due to the climate crisis. The point is the attention the media places on WHY it happens that is being ignored or heavily downplayed.

          • WarlockLawyer@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            The ABC article felt like satire in how much it avoided context or referencing what was said in the video

    • Lath@kbin.social
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      9 months ago

      Few people will remember him, but if any are spurred into action by his act, then it won’t be a completely wasteful loss of life.

      • tree@lemmy.zip
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        Yeah, I’ve seen some discourse that things like this when done by an individual as opposed to a group effort like the Tibetan monks are primarily to take their own life and the message is secondary/additional, but I would like to think that on some level something positive will come out of someone doing something as drastic and sad as this. Dying or taking your own life is not something positive or to be glorified, but when someone feels so hopeless to the point that they turn to this, I hope it’s at least a wake up call for some people to take this seriously and not just ignore/tune out one of the biggest genocides in recent history.

    • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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      most people remember Tibetan monks doing the same thing

      Out of political selfimmolations there were 7 Tibetan cases, but dozens of others including many Americans. I wonder why “most people” remember particularly those. Would it be that US media wasn’t fair to report not only this one here?

    • doingthestuff@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      They didn’t even share his name, either it is something middle eastern sounding or they just want everyone to forget about him.

    • Maeve@kbin.social
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      Yes, my first thought was, “Crikey! Has anyone in the united states self -immolated, before?!”

      It’s a horrific way to call attention to a cause. I’m sure after his best possible recovery, his military unit will rally to prosecute to add to his anguish.

      • TheRealKuni@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        I’m sure after his best possible recovery

        I don’t think he’ll recover. (In fact, apparently it is already being reported that he died. But even if he hasn’t yet he will.) He was taking deep lungfuls of flame and smoke to continue his chant. He’ll have destroyed his lungs. He knew going in that he wouldn’t come out of this alive.

        What a brave man.

        • MajikalMonkey2000@lemmy.world
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          Thank you for sharing this list, we should probably be more aware of the sacrifice these people have made. The vast majority of the Americans have done it for honorable causes.

        • idiomaddict@feddit.de
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          The first case of an active duty serviceman self immolating in the US. Alice Herz was the first one in the US, but there have been a dozen or two since then.

            • idiomaddict@feddit.de
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              Right, which I confirmed. The person you replied to asked if it had ever happened in the US before, without specifying the military service. That’s why I clarified that this is not close to the first US self immolation generally (not even the first in response to the same thing), only for active service members.

              • Maeve@kbin.social
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                9 months ago

                That’s right. It says a lot, either way and this thread makes me feel very sad. It says a lot, and not on the actors. It’s rather too much to bang out on social media but it gives one a long pause for deep reflection. It feels about like one little old self confronting the collective unconscious again.

    • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      Honestly, the megacorps will only allow this on main TV when pushing regulation against protesting.

      Like, "think of how many innocent moneys lives we would save if we shoot protesters’.

    • MindlessZ@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      I get so tired of this talking point. New York times, Washington Post, and even Fox news each have an article (or multiple) on this event.

      • tree@lemmy.zip
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        OMG THEY HAVE AN ARTICLE OMG THAT WAS TOTALLY MY POINT, I QUITE LITERALLY TALKED ABOUT REDISTRIBUTING THINGS FROM PRESS AGENCIES JFC, HOW CAN YOU READ WHAT I WROTE AND GET TO THIS, IS THERE ANYTHING RESIDING IN BETWEEN YOUR EARS ???

  • amzd@kbin.social
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    as he was engulfed in flames they started yelling at him to get down on the ground. They even drew their guns on the burning man before someone pushed them to get fire extinguishers to extinguish the fire.

    Stop killing yourself or I’ll shoot you! lmao

    • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
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      Yeah, suicide is illegal here… But getting killed by cops while you break the law isn’t.

      I’m not joking. Both of those things are true.

    • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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      9 months ago

      It highlights the absolute brutality of the regime, that their first instinct was to try and kill a dying man.

    • rab@lemmy.ca
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      They didn’t know what was going on, could have been a suicide bomber

        • rab@lemmy.ca
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          I’m just saying there is no way for them to know what his intentions are, of course they drew weapons

          The situation probably unfolded in a matter of seconds

  • kandoh@reddthat.com
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    This is the 2nd one. The only reason we’re even hearing about this is because he had to foresight to live stream it and also an independent journalist was there with a camera

    • rambling_lunatic@sh.itjust.works
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      Seems weird that an anarchist was a US soldier. Maybe he joined before he came to the political beliefs he held as he burned, or perhaps he came to these beliefs because of what he saw in the army.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        That happens quite a lot when you recruit teenagers with the promise of tech job skills.

      • DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz
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        Excuse me, what?

        It is incontrovertibly ON TOPIC to point out the fact that his dying words were FREE PALESTINE followed by a scream of DEATH AGONY because he was ON FIRE. His remarks factually did not conclude in the reported way. This is not a joke. I disagree it is crass or insensitive (Whose sensibilities am I supposed to have offended, precisely? More importantly: why the fuck should I care that their feelings are hurt by my pointing out the message he died to scream to the world?), and regardless it is factual and relevant. Go back and watch again if you don’t believe me, if you have the courage.

        “Crass jokes” aren’t prohibited by your badly written rules even if it were a joke.

        Your moderator indiscretion is what is crass here, if anything. Shame on you.

        • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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          Nah i’m with the mods on that one, it came off way too much like you were laughing at them.

          • DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz
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            Well, I’ll be the first to admit it’s very hard to tell what a person’s intent is through text alone. I could have provided more context. I suppose it felt to me like it didn’t need context because it was seared into my brain.

  • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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    Anyone who still visits reddit, how [deleted] is this story over there?

    Edit: I’ve created a torrent for the video if anyone wants to help seed. His sacrifice in bringing attention to the US-sponsored genocide in Palestine must not be forgotten.

    • matcha_addict@lemy.lol
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      Using the word “genocide” bans you in r/politics now

      r/washingtondc locked the post

      • Aermis@lemmy.world
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        Wait really? Just using genocide gets you banned in politics? What a bunch of shmeggs. I got banned there years ago because the mods simply went through my post history. I’m still shook with how the narrative and mind of users are tilted towards a very skewed viewpoint.

        Some people believe the user base of reddit is diverse, and they’re getting a healthy view of the world. Unbewknowest to them they find themselves dumbfounded when the world isn’t conforming to what they believe is the majority opinion

      • olivebranch@lemmy.ca
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        r/politics mods are horrific. In the mod log (at the bottom of the screen) you can see they delete posts just because of different opinions.

      • SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
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        So that is what “politically correct” means when we let the far right define it. If it can’t be mentioned, it doesn’t exist.

    • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
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      Fucking Christ my hearts beating so fast. Goddamn i didn’t want to see that but i watched it cus i thought i owed it to him… Goddamnit.

      And also shout out to the “hero” pointing his gun at his smouldering corpse as if it will lunge at him any moment.

      Goddamnit

      • NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social
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        That was fucking something. I’m like you I watch it because we owe it to him.

        He kept screaming free Palestine over and over, past the point where his lungs had to be toast, and stayed standing so long.

        • GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml
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          When people perform stunts (stuntmen running around engulfed in flames for movies) the most critical part, aside from extinguishing the flames as soon as is necessary, is making sure those people have oxygen. The fire will consume the oxygen that you would otherwise breathe in.

          • NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social
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            Yeah, but when you inhale super heated air, it scorches all of your alveoli?, the little fucking airbags in your lungs, and I would just figure that you would pass out very quickly from that lack of oxygen and the fact that you’re working all of your insides.

            I know that speech works from the diaphragm and all that but fuck men vocal cords.

            When I did my cryo training, they made very clear that you had about two steps into an oxygen free room, and you were done.

      • s1gtrap@lemmy.ml
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        At least one of them went “I don’t need guns, I need fire extinguishers!”

      • GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml
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        9 months ago

        I read about this and saw the censored version last night. I nearly threw up seeing the uncensored version now. I feel similar to you.

        And to all the shitheads on twitter downplaying this as “glorifying mental illness,” fuck the lot of them.

    • Nix@merv.news
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      He specifically livestreamed the video and sent links to the livestream and archive to various journalists and anarchist press so that the video would be shared and viewed. Its a disservice for it to be censored and weird that person also watermarked it with their @

      Uncensored version: (GRAPHIC VIDEO WARNING) https://x.com/v4p4l/status/1761995206465888567?s=46&t=xtlq_1V7eXJ31HI_SLdE9g It will likely be removed soon so download while you can if you think it deserves to be archived.

      Twitter is terrible so heres an upload on archive.org that has a torrent and driect download https://archive.org/download/rpreplay-final-1708967255

      • ɔiƚoxɘup@infosec.pub
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        Because it is censored, more people will see it and more people will get the message so I disagree with you but I see your point.

        • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          9 months ago

          literally the entire point behind this act is it being explicitly graphic, sharing the uncensored version quite literally goes against that. It’s almost as bad as censoring the message from the get go, except now we’re actively disrespecting his intention.

          • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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            I think the graphic nature can be shared while also censoring the gore. It’s not like it changes the events in any way.

            • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              9 months ago

              you can also do what this post and basically every article did, and then post a single frame of the video. No blurring needed, no graphic content explicitly posted.

      • Killing_Spark@feddit.de
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        I really debated if I wanted to see this, I thought didn’t need to get what he did. Let me tell you watching it made me sick to the stomach and made it much much more real than just knowing what did in text.

  • sweetpotato@lemmy.ml
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    He was too innocent for this world. I don’t know what to say other than I promise I will never forget him and that I’ll try to spread his message and do everything I can to help free Palestine.

    • Mycatiskai@lemmy.ca
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      He is the fiery monk of our time. I watched the video below and I will admit after the second “Free Palestine” and the screaming started, I had to turn the sound off until he fell and I suspected the screaming stopped.

      He is braver and has more strength than anyone on the Israeli side. I won’t forget that this hero couldn’t stay silent in the face of genocide.

    • WiseThat@lemmy.ca
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      He’s like the third guy to do this in a year, big money doesn’t want you to know about it

  • thorbot@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    God damn, this is brutal. I watched it and it gave me absolute chills. The world won’t forget this man’s bravery and sacrifice, even if the media doesn’t cover it.

  • braxy29@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    having viewed the video now, i initially found myself surprised i was not more horrified. my best guess as to why is this - what seemed most notable to me was his apparent sanity and intentionality in making this choice. he chose the where and when of his death and intended it to matter.

  • daltotron@lemmy.world
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    Whoever keeps throwing in the shit about law enforcement in these stories, which I think was actually a security officer for the embassy, drawing a gun, is doing a pretty good job of distracting from the main issue of what this guy lit himself on fire and died for. Doing a much better job than all the whinging about how he was mentally ill, and how this won’t change anything, and how there’s no clear cause, that mainstream news outlets are doing when they cover this type of stuff, if they cover it at all.

    I would also like to kind of point out here, that “this won’t change anything, this guy was mentally ill, he killed himself for nothing”, is really only true if you decide it to be true. We get to decide whether or not this motivates us to do something or not. We get to decide whether or not we let this affect us. Whether or not we do something, to make sure this doesn’t happen again, you know? And that’s mostly, in my mind, the purpose of this kind of protest.

    Maybe it makes the institutions think about what they’re doing, probably not, since, if they were gonna think that, they should’ve probably thought that about the 20,000 or so palestinians that have been killed. This protest is mostly engineered to get you mad, and sad, and to make you, the viewer, think about why this is happening, and think about what you can do to stop it. Not just deflecting immediately to whether or not it was effective, because by doing so, you let it not be as effective.

    Brings to mind the discourse against, really any form of protest that I’ve seen. You could take the george floyd protests, for example. So, sure, the government throws in agent provocateurs, in order to turn what would otherwise be peaceful protests, which would shut down any traffic into and out of the city, and would choke off any economic activity (puts pressure on businesses, utilities, puts pressure on local government, which needs to please these people who don’t really care about the protest but want things to go back to normal).

    But by doing so, right, by causing those passive forms of damage, but also by causing active forms of damage, say, burning a big box store down, right, the public showcases that, if a certain legal decision to, say, let derek chauvin off, occurs, then there will be potentially more protests and more destruction, which provides great incentive against that decision occurring.

    Now, in this case, there’s not as clear of a process, because there’s not as clear of repercussions if they decide to do nothing. About the only thing that might happen is that this might happen again, which, might, by some process of media coverage, put enough pressure on politicians to cause this to stop, if it becomes a political issue. The same thing is happening with mass shootings, which aren’t a greatly impacting issue, by the numbers, right, they’re much less than that of road deaths, heart disease, other forms of gun violence.

    But they are so horrifying to the american public and to really anyone of moral conscience, that they should serve as a clear marker that something is wrong, and something needs to change. Serial killers create a similar effect. It’s almost like a kind of terrorism, using that word without judgement, here. That’s the power of these protests. We’ve already seen it spread across a bunch of news media, even though it’s being reported about as poorly as you’d expect.

    I’m not particularly sure that repeat incidents would do any good, and I think I’d generally be opposed to that, as should anyone, but, an instance of self-immolation is what caused the arab spring. This sort of thing isn’t ineffective, I think it does a disservice to aaron bushnell to say otherwise.

    If you want to stop this sort of thing from occurring in the first place, you should really try to understand why it was happening, instead of brushing it aside.